Recently, I’ve been getting attacked by friends and people I do not know, because I am #NeverTrump and #NeverHllary. This is especially so from the Trumpistas, who believe I, all by myself, am allowing Hillary to win the election. Rather than continue short posts on the issue that do not fully convey thoughts, or having to repeat myself umpteen thousand times, because different people attack me on different threads.
I have come to the conclusion since the 1990s that the quality of public servants, especially for president, seems to be diminishing. We’ve had periods like this in our history before, such as the time between LBJ and Jimmy Carter. However, previous times seem to pale in comparison with the two sleazy people heading the two main parties. As I’ve discussed this with liberal, conservative and moderate friends, they all agree that at least one of the candidates reeks like raw sewage and is a threat to our democracy and existence as a nation. Still, most of them have chosen to vote for one of these two candidates as being the “lesser of two evils.”
As a historian and longtime student of ancient and modern scripture and early Judaeo-Christian texts, I’ve come to some conclusions. First, our modern prophets tell us every 4 years to prayerfully select a candidates that is worthy of the Lord’s acceptance. I think it immaterial to God whether the person is Democrat, Republican or something else, as long as he or she is a person of solid moral character. As long as we select people of good character, God will bless this land to the Gentiles. If not, then he will raise up another people to destroy the Gentiles off the land (3 Nephi 21). This is prophesied to happen when the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled.
Americans are looking for someone to save them. They either want someone who can bring about the Millennium by creating the perfect society where there is no poor, without having to drag religion into it; or they want a powerful person who can strong arm us into prosperity. Americans are willing to look past morality and character, as long as their candidate can deliver a better and safer life. They want a savior.
For in those days there shall also arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect, who are the elect according to the covenant. (Matthew 1:22 JST)
The elect are still the elect, even if deceived. They still are worthy of the covenants made at baptism and in the temple. But some are allowing fear and/or anger to cloud their judgment. They seek to preserve what they have or return to what once was.
So, how do we determine if either of the candidates is setting him/herself up to be a false savior? The Lord warns us of what evils to expect in the last days. We must determine what are some of the qualities the Lord demands of the people we elect, and the vices from the wicked. According to Paul,
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. (2 Timothy 3:1-5)
Does any of this sound like your candidate? I personally think that 1/2 of it applies to one candidate, and almost all apply to the other. If so, should I then be voting for either one of them?
“But the next president will select SCOTUS judges! The next president may get us into war with Russia/China/ISIS/etc! The next president will take away Constitutional rights!”
How does this excuse our moral duty to follow the prophets’ sage advice and select only moral people of good character? If guilty of the charges made against them both are worthy of prison – one for illegal use of classified documentation and the other for sexual assault. Both obfuscate on their moral weakness. Apologies, if forthcoming, are calculated, forced and are based on getting caught, not on true repentance. One side promises to “Make America great again”, while the other will save us from global warming.
For me, it would be better to vote for a good person, according to my conscience, and let the chips fall where they may. If one of these are elected and destroys the nation, then I look forward to continuing prophesy. It tells us that the stone cut out of the mountain without hands will roll over the nations, breaking them down, until it fills the earth.
As with the Soviet Union and the Nephite nation (3 Nephi 7), wickedness will probably destroy the American nation and it collapse into several smaller nations. At the moment comes the opportunity for the Elders of Israel to rise up and save the Constitution, which clearly hangs by a thread. Only then will the elect people be ready, amidst the chaos and destruction, to unite in humility and build Zion. Only in Zion will there be unity, peace and real strength. As it is, America is no longer the light on the hill for most of the world, but just a corrupt Roman Empire on its last legs. There is no Ronald Reagan with Constitutional principles waiting in the wings to bring us back from the brink.
Either Hillary is elected and she attacks the 2nd Amendment and Religious Freedom, or Trump is elected and he attacks the 1st Amendment’s Freedom of Press and the 4th Amendment. Both would like to limit Freedom of Speech and have “compliant citizens”. Who knows what other points they would seek to destroy? It is an issue of whether the socialist or the fascist puts the final nail in the coffin.
Given we have a deficit approaching 20 Trillion dollar; Trillions being printed by the Federal Reserve to artificially buoy up Wall Street, and Trillions being give to bail out banks and big corporations; as well as trillions being paid into a corrupt and broken welfare and health care system, we are going to go bankrupt as did the Soviet Union. There’s no way to stop it as long as Americans ignore the problem. Our military is exhausted by endless wars, where they are not allowed to truly fight and destroy the enemy. Russia and China are now militarily and financially ready to take over as the leaders of the world, once we collapse. It isn’t an issue of “if”, but “when”.
While the collapse will be sad, I look forward to it. The signs of the times are screaming at us from all sides, and yet we seem to ignore them (or are afraid to look). It will be the collapse that opens the door for us to start over and build Zion on Constitutional principles. Of course, if you prefer, you can walk away from Zion and join one of the large tribes that will build fascist or socialist nations.
I applaud the Deseret News, several moral politicians and others who have chosen to stand against the tyranny offered by Clinton or Trump. As for me, I would have voted for almost any of the other Republican candidates – even Jeb Bush (and I would hate to have a third Bush in the White House). However, from day one, I have been #NeverTrump and #NeverHillary because I vote my conscience. Neither is a moral person. Neither will uphold the Constitution. Both will scheme to become more powerful and wealthy at the expense of the nation. A vote for a third party is NOT a vote for Hillary, just as someone’s vote for Trump is not a vote for a third party candidate. It shows America who I approve to lead it.
I hope that the elect among us will prayerfully vote for a good and moral person. I know the chances of that person winning is not likely. However, if every disgusted person were to vote for a third party, neither Democrat nor Republican would have a chance to win. It requires bravery to stand apart. I know I’ve been attacked by friends in both parties, sometimes very viciously. Some have called into question my worthiness for a temple recommend. Thankfully, none of them is my bishop or stake president (who are very good men). It is hard to stand for the right, but many great people in scripture and LDS history received worse for standing for the right. I’m glad I have them as an example.
Let us be the elect of God. Let each of us (including me), thoughtfully and prayerfully select a person of good and moral character. Let us not be deceived by the anger and fears that flood the nation, but stand with faith in Christ.
New Post: Deceiving the Very Elect: Recently, I’ve been getting attacked by friends and people I… https://t.co/Dznq6UMPKs #LDS #Mormon
TheMillennialStar: Deceiving the Very Elect https://t.co/wUgiMlCEbn #lds #mormon
I am voting for Darrell Castle of the Constitution Party. Here is a good interview with him:
His VP running mate is Scott Bradley, who is LDS.
You are not alone.
I agree completely.
And, from the folks I know, many seem to.
I think, at a minimum, election day will be surprising not for who wins but because of how many of us vote “neither of those two.” And that is not valueless.
Thank you for well stating my place in this election, along with our fellow “Nevers”.
Deceiving the Very Elect https://t.co/3wyFsiUPpe
RT @Millennialstar: New Post: Deceiving the Very Elect: Recently, I’ve been getting attacked by friends and people I… https://t.co/Dznq6U…
Great stuff. Most I know are willing to express disgust for Trump while simultaneously whitewashing Clinton’s very real and deep stains. Like you, I’ve been a “double never” since the start… and I really don’t care if others find that politically viable.
I’m intrigued by your comment the “. . . our modern prophets tell us every 4 years to prayerfully select a candidates that is worthy of the Lord’s acceptance.”
This year’s statement (and past ones as near as I can remember) do *not* mention a requirement that a candidate be acceptable to the Lord. Rather it says that: “Principles compatible with the gospel may be found in various political parties, and members should seek candidates who best embody those principles.” (lds.org First Presidency 2016 Letter Encouraging Political Participation, Voting in US)
I take the statement to mean that *every* candidate (and party) is likely to have some good and some bad points, and we are responsible to choose the candidate that we think will “best embody” the core values of the Gospel we think are most important.
I take the statement(s) to mean the Church embraces party-neutral support for the electoral process. We are free to vote without being told which candidate or party most reflects “the Church’s” definition of gospel compatibility, and duty-bound to study it out for ourselves.
That said, I am reminded of the Lord’s counsel about unwashen hands and the food we ingest.
“18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.”
Each of these candidates have repeatedly defiled themselves by what they say and do. Yes, I judge. Not in some final condemnatory way, but I judge their actions to be actions I cannot sustain. My punch, pen, or click proceeds from my heart. It is a profound form of speech, and to sustain the person for whom I “raise my hand” changes me, for good or ill, because it proceeds from my heart.
I will not defile myself.
Both Castle and McMullin offer an alternative. Some recent polls indicate that McMullin is running strong enough to tie the major party candidates in Utah. My vote might not count for much, but it could be part of a flood of resistance to a choice I refuse to make by following the two party path, which is neither intrinsically constitutional or always moral.
Thanks for the post Rameumptom.
This venue provides space for me to develop some thoughts of my own that I haven’t put to concrete ideas. I agree with much of what you said but hadn’t yet fully explored why, and time is running short.
My comments above are not complete. They may seem to be judgmental of others who do not feel that they will be defiling themselves by voting for one of the two major candidates.
I did not mean that. You see, I believe certain things about each them that if proved true, would disqualify them as people of the kind of character I could sustain.
If you don’t believe the despicable things reported about one or the other of them are true then a vote for that person does not go against your knowledge and belief and cannot defile you in the same way as knowing support would.
But it is still a personal choice and not a neutral one, which means it still defiles or edifies–not others, only yourself. That choice has an effect.
So, if I do believe the despicable things reported about them and vote for one anyway, I believe I defile myself; and I also believe I would be substituting my wisdom for God’s, in an attempt to control the future, based on a fear of the future.
We cannot control the future, we can only control what we ourselves do. We can only defile ourselves or elevate ourselves by the choices we make. When all his children who are American citizens have voted, and the consequences of the those choices pile up, God will still be able to prove his children therewith to see if we will do all things we are commanded to do.
Our future circumstances and national character will be the collective consequence of her citizens present choices built on the past. My future is what I am becoming by my own choices and not others’. No future hoped for by a minority can be held against the will of the majority for long. So, I fear more the change in the hearts of too many people who, rather than stand firm in edifying choices based on their values, will choose the lesser of two evils to try to shape the future.
A collective future built on people choosing true to their beliefs, even in error, (one side must be wrong), seems better to me than a collective future where people will embrace evil to influence the future in the way they want; which even for the winner, is sure to include an awful lot of people willing to settle for the lesser of two evils in order to get what they want or avoid what they fear. A “NO!” vote is a good vote for me.
The never trumpers won’t create a Hillary Presidency, only the Trump supporters that put him on the ticket could do that.
Hillary is a foregone conclusion unless God miraculously decides to save us from her… But considering we put ourselves in this mess I assume he’s going to let us learn from our mistakes.
I’m still surprised that people actually believe Trump is a real choice. He’s never intended to win. He’s barely even trying. Just going around making speeches and flinging mud. The landslide on election day will tragically just be interpreted as Hillary support and opposition to Republicans.
If you want to win the presidency, you actually organize a winning team. Trump knows this. When he commission’s a construction project does he just bluster about building something in board rooms or press conferences? No there is a legion of architects, engineers, lawyers to interface with local government, construction workers, contractors, and so on.
You don’t run a cost cutting lean organization if you’re trying to win, let alone subsequently run the most important organization in the world. No, you do that if you never intended to win it.
I’ve come to my own conclusion, that the Lord does not care who wins this election, just that we are faithful to the commandments. No matter who wins, we as a people lose. Perhaps this will help us turn back to the Lord and His ways. I feel like it’s People of Alma time, and that we’re in for some pretty heavy burdens, trials and times. The only way we make it thru is to rely on the Lord, follow the prophets and apostles and be the best Latter-day Saints we can be. We’ve really made this mess we’re in, and we as a nation are the only ones to get ourselves out, again, that’s by turning back to the Lord.
And for the record, we’re #NeverTrump #NeverHillary at our house too … we’ve been harassed mightily by family and friends because of it. But at this point I don’t care. I know what I believe in, I do feel good about my choice for POTUS and that’s it.
Geoff, I like Darrell Castle, but he has less name recognition than Evan McMullin, who’s only been doing this for 3 months. The Constitution Party and Castle have been around for decades, yet do almost nothing to promote themselves. Glenn Beck recently said that they’ve invited Castle to speak on many occasions. Instead of jumping on it, it sometimes takes weeks for him to respond. Meanwhile, McMullin and Johnson always jump to be on his radio show. How can the party message get out, if they are hermits?
I want a party that is growing and getting name recognition, so that my vote is doing something. When the Republican party careens into the ditch in November, I want a party ready to replace it. That doesn’t seem to be the Constitution Party. This was the perfect year to get noticed (just note how much attention Johnson and McMullin have received), and yet Castle seems to not know how to use radio, tv, or social media. I see FB posts all the time from McMullin and Johnson, and only an infrequent note on Castle, usually because you mention him.
In this case, even if I agreed more with the Constitution party, I would still vote for Johnson or McMullin, because my vote would go further.
Rame, you gotta do what you gotta do. I am OK with whatever decision you make. I would agree with you that the Constitution party needs a MAJOR overhaul on PR, starting with their web page, their list of major issues and continuing on to choosing candidates who are more charismatic. But my conscience is clear voting for Darrell Castle, and it would not be with another choice, so I also gotta do what I gotta do. Most of my family members are voting for Trump, btw, so I am in a minority in my family, but I am OK with that too. Peace.
Geoff, I respect your choice. Like you, I wish they would move forward…