Bob Caswell has posted some remarks about his desire to better understand the temple through discussion with others. As I contemplated the ensuing conversation, I had a few thoughts that I intended to post as a comment, but when I went to submit them I felt like I should post them here instead. I hope that Bob doesn’t mind.
I post my thoughts cautiously, not because I fear the wrath of Constable Evans, but because the temple ceremony is very sacred and I do not want this conversation to disintegrate into anything inappropriate.
Have you ever noticed that copies of the scriptures are available in the temple foyer and in the chapel where you wait for your session to start, and copies of the scriptures are present and alluded to during the endowment ceremony but that there are no scriptures available in the celestial room. This is not likely an oversight…
I believe that the lack of scriptures in the celestial room may be part of the symbolism: that having entered into the presence of the Lord, you are supposed to take your questions directly to Him, with the expectation that according to your faith and according to his will, the Lord himself will reveal to you what you seek to know.
Elements of the ceremony emphasize that after having received essential information from the Lord through His authorized servants there is certain key information that is only received through a personal revelatory relationship with God. Even though the servants know the information and help to put you into contact with God, they do not impart it to you; you must receive it from the Lord yourself.
I think that, in this sense, the temple ceremony is self-referential. This idea is connected in my mind to 2 Nephi 9:41-43, which I think alludes quite specifically to the temple ceremony itself:
O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.
And whoso knocketh, to him will he open; and the wise, and the learned, and they that are rich, who are puffed up because of their learning, and their wisdom, and their riches– yea, they are they whom he despiseth; and save they shall cast these things away, and consider themselves fools before God, and come down in the depths of humility, he will not open unto them.
But the things of the wise and the prudent shall be hid from them forever–yea, that happiness which is prepared for the saints.
Those whom the Lord knows will enter into his presence, and those who know him not will find that their own learning and wisdom, no mater how great, is insufficient to gain entrance because they never received that essential portion that can only be obtained from Him directly.
“Constable Evans”??
Nah. Just a heckler.
My understanding is that people are encouraged to spend a brief time contemplating, meditating or praying in the celestial room — but that anyone who tries to stay for extended periods of time might be encouraged to leave. Having scriptures there might simply give the wrong impression.
Good application of that scripture, JMW. I think your point hearkens back to Christopher’s recent post and the ensuing discussion. The thematic connection is ‘shortcuts’. The conclusion is there are none.
I have often pondered the “ask and ye shall receive, knock and it shall be opened unto you” scriptures. These seem to definitely tie in with what we are taught in the temple. We have to ask in order to receive, we have to get it from the lord. I don’t think this language is coincidence.
JMW-
Perhaps all of my questioning and knowledge seeking is really not necessary, as certain feelings and experiences I’ve had somewhat supersede that need. But rest assured that He and I will have some long conversations after this life when I’m no longer bouund to relying soley on warm fuzzies and feelings.
By the way, I liked you insight into the reasoning for scriptures not being in the Celestial room, though danithew’s reasoning was interesting as well. But wouldn’t it be nice to know the REAL reasoning of whomever made that decision (even if it’s a combination of what you and danithew said)?
And no, I don’t mind at all, especially since you made me laugh out loud with “the wrath of Constable Evans”.
The lack of Scriptures in the Celestial room is almost definitely because they don’t want people loitering there. I have been in groups where we loitered too long and were politely asked to move along at a convenient time. The last time, it was a friend’s first time through prior to being sealed to his wife, and we spent quite a bit of time talking. So much so that we ended up impinging on the next session’s time. The rooms simply arent large enough to accomodate a large number of people, so people cannot be allowed to loiter.
You and Danithew may be right, Kurt, though I have never, ever been asked to move along–either when attending alone or with a group. I have spent long periods sitting alone, contemplating and praying without a hint from the workers that I should leave.
Whether or not the lack of scriptures is part of the symbolism, the larger point of my post, I think, is still applicable.
Several years ago, they had scriptures in the Provo celestial room, but they were shrink-wrapped. One of the workers told me that the temple president had them removed because he “didn’t want any scriptures going unread.”
JMW, I didn’t mean to undermine the message of your post with my earlier comment. A few years ago I was surprised to hear a temple worker say that he/she (can’t really remember who it was who said this) had been instructed to politely shoo people away from the celestial room if they stayed there too long. It had never occurred to me — but it makes sense that some would want to sit and pray there for hours if they had the chance. If this practice became commonplace I imagine it could create real problems.
Personally I’ve never been asked to leave the celestial room … but I don’t think I’ve ever tried to sit and meditate there for more than 20-25 minutes.
Perhaps the “move along” thing is related to the architecture. I have never done a temple-hopping vacation, so the number of Temples I have been in has been fairly limited, with the DC temple being the one most often visited. The Celestial rooms arent all that big and there are at least 2, maybe 3 session rooms that lead into them, so on a busy night there is no way they could allow loitering.
Bob said: “Perhaps all of my questioning and knowledge seeking is really not necessary, as certain feelings and experiences I’ve had somewhat supersede that need. But rest assured that He and I will have some long conversations after this life when I’m no longer bound to relying solely on warm fuzzies and feelings.“
Bob,
I don’t think there is anything wrong with seeking knowledge. But I find your second sentence interesting. Why must you wait until the next life? Your choice of words seems to me to communicate the feeling that you believe that communications from the Lord are limited to “fuzzy” feelings and indistinct impressions.
The Spirit can communicate information in ways beyond thoughts and feelings including by visions, dreams, and other specific communications. Even when it comes in our mind and heart, it can be very specific and unmistakable.
I am thinking of Elder Russel M. Nelson’s account of an experience he had when the Lord revealed to him a previously unknown technique for performing heart surgery. Just as the Lord revealed this kind of specific information to Elder Nelson, he can reveal to us the meaning of the temple.
I’ve definitely found scriptures in the Provo Celestial Room. Perhaps it was simply a mistake or someone brought them there?
I imagine that if you had some serious contemplating to do it could easily be voiced and understood. When I have seen temple workers “move people along” it has been more of a nudge to people who are in the celestial room enjoying old home week, renewing friendships, etc. It’s one of my favorite reasons about the San Diego and Salt Lake temples. They have quiet corners one can spend an adequate time in comtemplating the words of the Lord and praying.
It reminds me of a story I read about the saints enjoying the temples great rooms at Nauvoo. Some thought the saints would do well to go home and dance and sleep elsewhere. When the Prophet Joseph was asked about it, his response was “Is there any better place for the saints to enjoy the company of other saints?” He did not excuse anyone politely or any other way.
Jonathon,
I think one thread of thought throughout your post here is that we can learn much from the temple through direct communication from the Lord and need not only look to scriptures, books, and leaders for those insights. I think that insight is correct and worth noting but I also think it is a method that requires much caution. There is a difference between a new heart surgery technique and specific doctrinal truths.
One such difference is that there might be many, indeed innumerable new heart surgery techniques all of varying degrees of worth but many of equal worth. Whereas, in a specific doctrinal query there might only be one or very few. This suggests that doctrinal specificity might indeed be more specific than heart surgery. Whenever we seek answers to specific doctrinal questions from the Lord we have a large risk of misinterpretation and misnuderstanding. Perhaps this is implicit in your post but I think it is imperative that we first seek out all the knowledge extant from scriptures, leaders, and other authorized doctrinal sources before we take specific doctrinal questions to the Lord. I think it is important to check what we believe to be revelation (what we feel we have personally received from the Lord) and what we know to be revelation (what we can examine through official doctrinal sources). This checking principle points to two other important principles. One, we are mere mortals and often what we believe to be inspiration simply isn’t and we need to know where we can go to make sure specific answers are in line with the living prophet (or else we might find oursleves in a Northern Arizon compound). Two, it is a complex question as to how much pure doctrine the Lord will reveal to us personally. Much such revelation on doctrinal issues comes through auhorized servants (the prophets) and thus most doctrinally specific revelation we receive we should be able to find in the writings of the prophets, either ancient or modern. I find it hard to believe that the Lord would reveal a doctrinal truth to me that he hasn’t already revealed to a prophet AND set forth in public writing (through the scriptures and conference). Thus, a majority of the revelation we receive I believe is confirming revelation or intensly personal revelation with no specific general application (warnings, answers to specific life circumstances etc.–generally applicable only in through the overarching principle that the Lord will answer our specific questions)
Great comment HL. I heartily agree with you. We should first seek knowledge from extant scripture and authoritized sources and we should always check to make sure that our revelations are in line with those in authority.
The issue is complex, but there is safety in the concept of stewardship. Revelation is stewardship bound and while the Lord may choose to reveal to you or me specific doctrines that have not been revealed to the church, we are not authorized to proclaim, teach, or apply those doctrines, as new doctrine may only be established by those with the appropriate priesthood keys.
For example, I have a relative to whom the Lord revealed in a dream the establishment of small temples several years before they were established by President Hinckley. She kept this dream mostly to herself (confiding cautiously in only a few members of her immediate family, incuding her husband) and waited for the day when the dream would be fulfilled by those in authority: and it was. I have known other members to whom the Lord revealed who would be the their next Bishop or Stake President, but, according to proper principles of stewardship, waited quietly for the revelation to be confirmed by those with the proper priesthood keys.
This same principle of stewardship would apply to any understanding the Lord might give us of the meaning of the temple ceremony. He can, and I believe will, reveal specific information to us according to our faith and his wisdom, but we would still be bound by the principles of stewardship, and we would not be authorized to teach it, and should the prophets later reveal that which stands contrary to what we believed to be correct, their word must be preferred to our own.