Comments on: Words of the prophets on these times http://www.millennialstar.org/words-of-the-prophets-on-these-times/ Wed, 08 Feb 2012 21:49:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: manaen http://www.millennialstar.org/words-of-the-prophets-on-these-times/comment-page-1/#comment-32585 manaen Wed, 08 Oct 2008 23:14:48 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/09/29/words-of-the-prophets-on-these-times/#comment-32585 In case some haven't seen it, this is a classic in LDS culture from J. Reuben Clark, Apostle and member of the 1st Presidency. It's rung true every year since I first read it in the 70s. - - - - - Interest never sleeps nor sickens nor dies; it never goes to the hospital; it works on Sundays and holidays; it never takes a vacation; it never visits nor travels; it takes no pleasure; it is never laid off work nor discharged from employment; it never works on reduced hours; it never has short crops nor droughts; it never pays taxes; it buys no food; it wears no clothes; it is unhoused and without home and so has no repairs, no replacements, no shingling, plumbing, painting, or whitewashing; it has neither wife, children, father, mother, nor kinfolk to watch over and care for; it has no expense of living; it has neither weddings nor births nor deaths; it has no love, no sympathy; it is as hard and soulless as a granite cliff. Once in debt, interest is your companion every minute of the day and night; you cannot shun it or slip away from it; you cannot dismiss it; it yields neither to entreaties, demands, or orders; and whenever you get in its way or cross its course or fail to meet its demands, it crushes you. (in Conference Report, Apr., 1938, p. 103.) In case some haven’t seen it, this is a classic in LDS culture from J. Reuben Clark, Apostle and member of the 1st Presidency. It’s rung true every year since I first read it in the 70s.
- – - – -
Interest never sleeps nor sickens nor dies; it never goes to the hospital; it works on Sundays and holidays; it never takes a vacation; it never visits nor travels; it takes no pleasure; it is never laid off work nor discharged from employment; it never works on reduced hours; it never has short crops nor droughts; it never pays taxes; it buys no food; it wears no clothes; it is unhoused and without home and so has no repairs, no replacements, no shingling, plumbing, painting, or whitewashing; it has neither wife, children, father, mother, nor kinfolk to watch over and care for; it has no expense of living; it has neither weddings nor births nor deaths; it has no love, no sympathy; it is as hard and soulless as a granite cliff. Once in debt, interest is your companion every minute of the day and night; you cannot shun it or slip away from it; you cannot dismiss it; it yields neither to entreaties, demands, or orders; and whenever you get in its way or cross its course or fail to meet its demands, it crushes you.
(in Conference Report, Apr., 1938, p. 103.)

]]> By: mmiles http://www.millennialstar.org/words-of-the-prophets-on-these-times/comment-page-1/#comment-32412 mmiles Wed, 01 Oct 2008 05:19:52 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/09/29/words-of-the-prophets-on-these-times/#comment-32412 I was not trying to say Mike was not inspired and blessed. However I think it is quite a convoluted way of looking at things to try and extrapolate good for the other guy, or suggest that the other guy was somehow set-up by God to be chastized. I was not trying to say Mike was not inspired and blessed. However I think it is quite a convoluted way of looking at things to try and extrapolate good for the other guy, or suggest that the other guy was somehow set-up by God to be chastized.

]]> By: aloysiusmiller http://www.millennialstar.org/words-of-the-prophets-on-these-times/comment-page-1/#comment-32393 aloysiusmiller Wed, 01 Oct 2008 00:38:35 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/09/29/words-of-the-prophets-on-these-times/#comment-32393 Actually mmiles, if everyone lived by the spirit there would be no significant financial panics. But greed rages in the world and Mike Parker listened to a prompting and someone else caught up in the spirit of the times used his agency to respond to his judgment and his feelings. Nasty thing this agency. Actually mmiles, if everyone lived by the spirit there would be no significant financial panics. But greed rages in the world and Mike Parker listened to a prompting and someone else caught up in the spirit of the times used his agency to respond to his judgment and his feelings.

Nasty thing this agency.

]]> By: aloysiusmiller http://www.millennialstar.org/words-of-the-prophets-on-these-times/comment-page-1/#comment-32389 aloysiusmiller Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:00:06 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/09/29/words-of-the-prophets-on-these-times/#comment-32389 MMiles Is that how the Holy Ghost works? Just pulling levers everywhere until everything comes out right? MMiles

Is that how the Holy Ghost works? Just pulling levers everywhere until everything comes out right?

]]> By: Geoff B. http://www.millennialstar.org/words-of-the-prophets-on-these-times/comment-page-1/#comment-32388 Geoff B. Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:58:12 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/09/29/words-of-the-prophets-on-these-times/#comment-32388 Mmiles, Mike Parker can certainly defend himself, but I don't think that's what he is saying at all. We really aren't capable of seeing all of the big picture in what the Lord does. It could be that the person who bought Mike's house is going to hold it for 20 years and make a killing when the real estate market booms again. It could be the opposite and perhaps the person who bought his house will lose money but needs to be chastened for his bad financial decisions for reasons we don't understand. The is one thing that I have definitely learned in my life: if I follow the words of the prophets, and try to keep the commandments, I am blessed. So, Mike tried to follow the words of the prophets regarding his house, and it appears he made a good decision. What's not to like? Mmiles, Mike Parker can certainly defend himself, but I don’t think that’s what he is saying at all. We really aren’t capable of seeing all of the big picture in what the Lord does. It could be that the person who bought Mike’s house is going to hold it for 20 years and make a killing when the real estate market booms again. It could be the opposite and perhaps the person who bought his house will lose money but needs to be chastened for his bad financial decisions for reasons we don’t understand.

The is one thing that I have definitely learned in my life: if I follow the words of the prophets, and try to keep the commandments, I am blessed. So, Mike tried to follow the words of the prophets regarding his house, and it appears he made a good decision. What’s not to like?

]]> By: mmiles http://www.millennialstar.org/words-of-the-prophets-on-these-times/comment-page-1/#comment-32387 mmiles Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:02:05 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/09/29/words-of-the-prophets-on-these-times/#comment-32387 I am curious and troubled by some of the logic here. Yes, the prophets have counseled and warned us to live modestly and stay out of debt. We are blessed when we follow this counsel. Mike Parker, you mention that the Lord blessed you by being able to sell your condo--but is that to say he prompted someone else to make a poor financial decision in buying it? I am curious and troubled by some of the logic here. Yes, the prophets have counseled and warned us to live modestly and stay out of debt. We are blessed when we follow this counsel.
Mike Parker, you mention that the Lord blessed you by being able to sell your condo–but is that to say he prompted someone else to make a poor financial decision in buying it?

]]> By: Geoff B. http://www.millennialstar.org/words-of-the-prophets-on-these-times/comment-page-1/#comment-32386 Geoff B. Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:52:59 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/09/29/words-of-the-prophets-on-these-times/#comment-32386 It seems reasonable to me to take out loans to buy a house and fund your education. I have no way of knowing individual situations, but it seems like a good rule of thumb is to do the following: 1)Cut unnecessary expenditures to a minimum. Look at your monthly expenses and see where you can cut. And then look again and see where you can cut. 2)Hold off on all new purchases. Keep the used car, keep the used TV. 3)Reduce, reuse, recycle. 4)Plant a garden next spring and plan on doing some canning. 5)Pay your tithing and fast offerings. My grandparents somehow made it through the Depression, with 33 percent unemployment in Utah. We're at 6 percent (and probably growing) but it seems unlikely we will have 33 percent unemployment again. It seems to me we've simply gotten too used to having the latest Ipod, the latest Iphone, the latest plasma TV, etc. It seems we need to concentrate on the more important things. One thing to add: shop at Wal-Mart. Every time I go there I find something I need that is half the price of everywhere else. The Wal Mart near my house has a $5 DVD area with a HUGE selection. I buy one a week and on Friday nights the family pops pop corn and goes to the movies for a total cost of $5 (vs. $30-plus if we were to buy tickets and drive to the movie theater). Just my personal experience. (I had Netflix for a while but found my $14/month was more expensive in the long run than buying DVDs at $5 each at Wal Mart -- we usually end up watching the DVDs we buy at least twice). It seems reasonable to me to take out loans to buy a house and fund your education. I have no way of knowing individual situations, but it seems like a good rule of thumb is to do the following:

1)Cut unnecessary expenditures to a minimum. Look at your monthly expenses and see where you can cut. And then look again and see where you can cut.
2)Hold off on all new purchases. Keep the used car, keep the used TV.
3)Reduce, reuse, recycle.
4)Plant a garden next spring and plan on doing some canning.
5)Pay your tithing and fast offerings.

My grandparents somehow made it through the Depression, with 33 percent unemployment in Utah. We’re at 6 percent (and probably growing) but it seems unlikely we will have 33 percent unemployment again.

It seems to me we’ve simply gotten too used to having the latest Ipod, the latest Iphone, the latest plasma TV, etc. It seems we need to concentrate on the more important things.

One thing to add: shop at Wal-Mart. Every time I go there I find something I need that is half the price of everywhere else. The Wal Mart near my house has a $5 DVD area with a HUGE selection. I buy one a week and on Friday nights the family pops pop corn and goes to the movies for a total cost of $5 (vs. $30-plus if we were to buy tickets and drive to the movie theater). Just my personal experience. (I had Netflix for a while but found my $14/month was more expensive in the long run than buying DVDs at $5 each at Wal Mart — we usually end up watching the DVDs we buy at least twice).

]]> By: Mormon Estate http://www.millennialstar.org/words-of-the-prophets-on-these-times/comment-page-1/#comment-32385 Mormon Estate Tue, 30 Sep 2008 08:41:18 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/09/29/words-of-the-prophets-on-these-times/#comment-32385 From Pres. Faust back in 1986: Some of us are children of the Great Depression in the United States over fifty years ago. Most of us who passed through that period will never forget the difficult economic times almost everyone experienced. At that time many banks failed; people lost their life’s savings; a great many were unemployed, and some of them lost their homes because they could not pay the mortgage... There are some investment counselors who urge speculative credit practices described as “leverage,” “credit wealth,” and “borrow yourself rich.” Such practices may work successfully for some, but at best they succeed only for a time. An economic reversal always seems to come, and many who have followed such practices find themselves in financial ruin and their lives in shambles... Owning a home free of debt is an important goal of provident living, although it may not be a realistic possibility for some. A mortgage on a home leaves a family unprotected against severe financial storms. Homes that are free and clear of mortgages and liens cannot be foreclosed on. When there are good financial times, it is the most opportune time to retire our debts and pay installments in advance. It is a truth that “the borrower is servant to the lender.” (Prov. 22:7.) Many young people have become so hypnotized by the rhythm of monthly payments they scarcely think of the total cost of what they buy. They immediately want things it took their parents years to acquire. It is not the pathway to happiness to assume debts for a big home, an expensive car, or the most stylish clothes just so we can “keep up with the Joneses.” Payment of obligations is a sacred trust. Most of us will never be rich, but we can feel greatly unburdened when we are debt-free. From Pres. Faust back in 1986:

Some of us are children of the Great Depression in the United States over fifty years ago. Most of us who passed through that period will never forget the difficult economic times almost everyone experienced. At that time many banks failed; people lost their life’s savings; a great many were unemployed, and some of them lost their homes because they could not pay the mortgage…

There are some investment counselors who urge speculative credit practices described as “leverage,” “credit wealth,” and “borrow yourself rich.” Such practices may work successfully for some, but at best they succeed only for a time. An economic reversal always seems to come, and many who have followed such practices find themselves in financial ruin and their lives in shambles…

Owning a home free of debt is an important goal of provident living, although it may not be a realistic possibility for some. A mortgage on a home leaves a family unprotected against severe financial storms. Homes that are free and clear of mortgages and liens cannot be foreclosed on. When there are good financial times, it is the most opportune time to retire our debts and pay installments in advance. It is a truth that “the borrower is servant to the lender.” (Prov. 22:7.)

Many young people have become so hypnotized by the rhythm of monthly payments they scarcely think of the total cost of what they buy. They immediately want things it took their parents years to acquire. It is not the pathway to happiness to assume debts for a big home, an expensive car, or the most stylish clothes just so we can “keep up with the Joneses.” Payment of obligations is a sacred trust. Most of us will never be rich, but we can feel greatly unburdened when we are debt-free.

]]> By: Gretel http://www.millennialstar.org/words-of-the-prophets-on-these-times/comment-page-1/#comment-32384 Gretel Tue, 30 Sep 2008 08:10:24 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/09/29/words-of-the-prophets-on-these-times/#comment-32384 Hans, I feel your pain! I graduated from law school 6 years ago and am still paying off my 6-figure law school debt...and will continue to pay it off for the foreseeable future. I often wonder if I made the right choice by going to a top-tier private school instead of a moderately ranked second-tier school on scholarship or a lesser ranked state school. And, I agree with Geoff B as well. Besides law school, my debt-to-income ratio is manageably low, but now I want to get out of CC debt aggressively. It's going to be a long and hard year. For as long as I can remember, people cite the current crisis as THE sign of the times. This one could be bigger, but is the sky falling? Hans, I feel your pain! I graduated from law school 6 years ago and am still paying off my 6-figure law school debt…and will continue to pay it off for the foreseeable future.

I often wonder if I made the right choice by going to a top-tier private school instead of a moderately ranked second-tier school on scholarship or a lesser ranked state school.

And, I agree with Geoff B as well. Besides law school, my debt-to-income ratio is manageably low, but now I want to get out of CC debt aggressively. It’s going to be a long and hard year.

For as long as I can remember, people cite the current crisis as THE sign of the times. This one could be bigger, but is the sky falling?

]]> By: Hans http://www.millennialstar.org/words-of-the-prophets-on-these-times/comment-page-1/#comment-32383 Hans Tue, 30 Sep 2008 01:07:52 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/09/29/words-of-the-prophets-on-these-times/#comment-32383 I've been worried about this recently. I graduated from law school last year with six figure debt and bought a house in phoenix a few weeks before the mortgage slump last year. I know President Hinckley said that reasonable debt for homes and school are ok, but I am really worried now. School was a good investment, but one of my clients went bankrupt today (it has an "ovia" in its name) and I may have to dip into some of my food storage. I’ve been worried about this recently. I graduated from law school last year with six figure debt and bought a house in phoenix a few weeks before the mortgage slump last year. I know President Hinckley said that reasonable debt for homes and school are ok, but I am really worried now. School was a good investment, but one of my clients went bankrupt today (it has an “ovia” in its name) and I may have to dip into some of my food storage.

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