BTW, I think there is a need for apologetics, but not for everyone.

BTW, the very reasons that I think that Mormon apologetics are a useless foray into the unknown are your 2 quotes listed below for the simple reason that testimony is the greatest proof of all and you have shared yours without any threat of proof, a fantastic slant for one who has spent perhaps too much time trying to tie up loose ends for the rest of us that didn’t really ask the apologetists to do so! BTW, the more important questions of which way the pearly gates of Heaven will swing and hit you on the way out cannot be answered by them, but I am sure they have a superlative description of why they would swing the way they swing, just because — utterly ridiculous!

These are nicely and faithfully put:

1. “In saying this, I do not think that the evidence for the authenticity of the Book of Mormon will be allowed to become overwhelming and unquestionable anytime soon.”

2. “The wisdom of the Gospel will remain hidden to the blind, but to those honest in heart willing to open their eyes and see with the power of the Spirit, there is power and richness beyond compare. I speak of the core of the Gospel – the Atonement of Jesus Christ, the Bible and Book of Mormon, the power of the priesthood and the Temple, etc. – and not of every aspect of the Church or the dealings of fallible Mormon mortals.”

I see great testimony in these words, and can tell that in spite of the challenges you are facing and the insights you have shared in past apologist extants, you know this gospel is true and that is better knowledge that any proof upon which the gospel will ever stand. Sure, we will know Nephite-Lamanite geography and political structure to the n-th degree one day and those who have speculated now will perhaps have a greater appreciation of those things at that time, but that will never change the fact that faith is the first principle of the gospel and not knowledge or burden of proof because proof always comes after faith – I think a Book of Mormon (that unproveable book) named Moroni talked about this at length in Ether 12:6–27! In closing this chapter of the Book of Mormon, he did not tell us to ‘Seek these ruins that have been created by the destruction of two great cultures’, he wrote ‘seek this Jesus of whom the Prophets and apostles have testified’ and that, my gospel friends needs no burden of proof or an apologist view point but plain old faith!

In saying this, I do not think that the evidence for the authenticity of the Book of Mormon will be allowed to become overwhelming and unquestionable anytime soon. Sorry, but faith has got to remain an essential element for accepting the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And that’s why intellectual pride will keep many learned people from ever seeing the power and beauty of the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ. It’s always going to seem lame, crazy, and even dangerous to the princes of the world.

Jeff, it seems to me that this statement is crucial. If you have problems with the Book of Mormon because you believe that “science” contradicts it, you need to redouble your efforts to gain more faith.

Let me also say that I am very pleased with the high number of Jeffs, Jeffreys and Geoffs involved with this thread.

Gary! That’s your cue!

P.S.–Even the Gospel Doctrine teacher’s manual points out that ‘day’ doesn’t necessarily mean 24 hours.

Significant Church leaders had been suggesting that the Book of Mormon allows for other ancient migrations to the Americas long before DNA evidence came out. It has never been official Church doctrine that all Native Americans had to be descended solely from the House of Israel, and statements to the contrary are not new inventions aimed at circumventing DNA evidence.

RE: your comment (#1)–How is that a *fact*? It seems to me that Jeff’s primary aim has been to help the critics (both mormon and non) to understand that they may not be asking the right questions. How does that constitute modifying LDS doctrine, generally?

As promised God has proceeded to do a marvellous work and a wonder, yet, the wisdom of their wise men has perished, and the understanding of their prudent men is hidden.

There’s a great line from Men in Black, which slightly modified is one I love to use in describing modern day intellectual Romans and Greeks. Eighteen hundred years ago, everybody knew the earth was the center of the universe. Eight hundred years ago, everybody knew the earth was flat. Two hundered years ago, everybody knew the Bible was the only word of God. Imagine what you’ll know tomorrow.

I really appreciate this post. Thanks.