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	<title>Comments on: The Church of Casual Saints</title>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/the-church-of-casual-saints/comment-page-1/#comment-43037</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 07:47:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3898#comment-43037</guid>
		<description>Speaking of introspection, are we really any different as individuals and as a church than the Jews at the time of Christ?  Comments critiquing people because of their clothing, what they wear, how they dress and implying (if not worse) that somehow this is indicative of a casual relationship with Christ.  Can someone please show me where Jesus ever rebuked someone because they weren&#039;t wearing what we&#039;d consider proper Sunday attire (i.e. a business suit, cufflinks, a nice tie and shoes that were shined that morning)?  Does anyone really think that the Lord cares if I wear, for example, a tie to church?  All clothing, in essence, is little more than an attempt to satisfy our vanity.  To have a stake presidency turn someone away from a temple recommend because they didn&#039;t meet their standards of dress is a shame - an act that, in essence, is barring someone from access to the temple NOT because they were unworthy, but because they didn&#039;t dress-up to someone&#039;s standards of Sunday attire.  

Matthew 23:27-28 - Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees [Latter Day Saints], hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.  Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

In my opinion, the place where we&#039;ve become the most casual is in our acceptance of all that is Babylon.  Cars, clothing, houses, electronics of all shapes and sizes (Christmas anyone?)...materialism at its finest.  We go to college to become learned in the ways of the world.  We then work to pay for this schooling and these material things every day of our lives (not to mention raising another generation fully steeped in increasing materialism), doing our very best to uphold the very society and secret combinations we&#039;ve been told to flee from post haste.  Unfortunately, we&#039;ve even been told to uphold this makeshift world and society, despite its apparent disconnect from teachings in our very own standard works:

&quot;You are moving into the most competitive age the world has ever known. All around you is competition. You need all the education you can get. ... Sacrifice anything that is needed to be sacrificed to qualify yourselves to do the work of the world. That world will in large measure pay you what it thinks you are worth, and your worth will increase as you gain education and proficiency in your chosen field.&quot; - Gordon B. Hinckley, April 2009 New Era, p. 17

Really?  Sacrifice &quot;anything that is needed&quot; to do the &quot;work of the [Babylon]?&quot;  

In the end, though,  and in spite of our waywardness and general casualness with spiritual things, it&#039;s only our relationship with Christ that matters - the only true way to the Tree of Life.  If we&#039;re close to Him and hold to Him, it matters not what others say and tell us to do because we&#039;ll be following our Lord and Master.  If we were closer to Him, whatever casualness we felt in our lives would become apparent and quickly changed.  That casualness, however, would be an inward casualness...a cleansing from within.

Sorry if I sound preachy...just some things I myself am working on and to suggest that casualness is related to outward appearances is to do a disservice to this discussion when the changes we ALL need come from the inside.

The Hebrew word for &quot;appearance&quot; in the following verse is &#039;ayin.  This word relates directly to the eye and that which we see with our physical eyes, or, as one Hebrew dictionary states it:  &quot;as many passions of the mind, such as envy, pride, pity, desire, are manifest in the eyes...&quot;

1 Sam. 16:7 - But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.   

Just my $0.04 (adjusted for inflation)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of introspection, are we really any different as individuals and as a church than the Jews at the time of Christ?  Comments critiquing people because of their clothing, what they wear, how they dress and implying (if not worse) that somehow this is indicative of a casual relationship with Christ.  Can someone please show me where Jesus ever rebuked someone because they weren&#8217;t wearing what we&#8217;d consider proper Sunday attire (i.e. a business suit, cufflinks, a nice tie and shoes that were shined that morning)?  Does anyone really think that the Lord cares if I wear, for example, a tie to church?  All clothing, in essence, is little more than an attempt to satisfy our vanity.  To have a stake presidency turn someone away from a temple recommend because they didn&#8217;t meet their standards of dress is a shame &#8211; an act that, in essence, is barring someone from access to the temple NOT because they were unworthy, but because they didn&#8217;t dress-up to someone&#8217;s standards of Sunday attire.  </p>
<p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/matt/23/27-28#27" title="LDS Scriptures Internet Edition: Matthew 23:27&ndash;28">Matthew 23:27&ndash;28</a> &#8211; Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees [Latter Day Saints], hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.  Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.</p>
<p>In my opinion, the place where we&#8217;ve become the most casual is in our acceptance of all that is Babylon.  Cars, clothing, houses, electronics of all shapes and sizes (Christmas anyone?)&#8230;materialism at its finest.  We go to college to become learned in the ways of the world.  We then work to pay for this schooling and these material things every day of our lives (not to mention raising another generation fully steeped in increasing materialism), doing our very best to uphold the very society and secret combinations we&#8217;ve been told to flee from post haste.  Unfortunately, we&#8217;ve even been told to uphold this makeshift world and society, despite its apparent disconnect from teachings in our very own standard works:</p>
<p>&#8220;You are moving into the most competitive age the world has ever known. All around you is competition. You need all the education you can get. &#8230; Sacrifice anything that is needed to be sacrificed to qualify yourselves to do the work of the world. That world will in large measure pay you what it thinks you are worth, and your worth will increase as you gain education and proficiency in your chosen field.&#8221; &#8211; Gordon B. Hinckley, April 2009 New Era, p. 17</p>
<p>Really?  Sacrifice &#8220;anything that is needed&#8221; to do the &#8220;work of the [Babylon]?&#8221;  </p>
<p>In the end, though,  and in spite of our waywardness and general casualness with spiritual things, it&#8217;s only our relationship with Christ that matters &#8211; the only true way to the Tree of Life.  If we&#8217;re close to Him and hold to Him, it matters not what others say and tell us to do because we&#8217;ll be following our Lord and Master.  If we were closer to Him, whatever casualness we felt in our lives would become apparent and quickly changed.  That casualness, however, would be an inward casualness&#8230;a cleansing from within.</p>
<p>Sorry if I sound preachy&#8230;just some things I myself am working on and to suggest that casualness is related to outward appearances is to do a disservice to this discussion when the changes we ALL need come from the inside.</p>
<p>The Hebrew word for &#8220;appearance&#8221; in the following verse is &#8216;ayin.  This word relates directly to the eye and that which we see with our physical eyes, or, as one Hebrew dictionary states it:  &#8220;as many passions of the mind, such as envy, pride, pity, desire, are manifest in the eyes&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_sam/16/7#7" title="LDS Scriptures Internet Edition: 1 Sam. 16:7">1 Sam. 16:7</a> &#8211; But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.   </p>
<p>Just my $0.04 (adjusted for inflation)</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/the-church-of-casual-saints/comment-page-1/#comment-42972</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 22:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3898#comment-42972</guid>
		<description>It will probably take some sort of crisis to wake people up. Anyone who wants to know can read their history books and scriptures. Only the strongest awake before the &quot;hour of wolves.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It will probably take some sort of crisis to wake people up. Anyone who wants to know can read their history books and scriptures. Only the strongest awake before the &#8220;hour of wolves.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff B</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/the-church-of-casual-saints/comment-page-1/#comment-42768</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 21:30:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3898#comment-42768</guid>
		<description>Sure, someday when I don&#039;t have small kids, I&#039;d love to work the recommend desk.  I hope if I did I would follow the policy set by the temple president, whatever that policy is.  ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, someday when I don&#8217;t have small kids, I&#8217;d love to work the recommend desk.  I hope if I did I would follow the policy set by the temple president, whatever that policy is.  <img src='http://www.millennialstar.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Brian Duffin</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/the-church-of-casual-saints/comment-page-1/#comment-42745</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Duffin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 18:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3898#comment-42745</guid>
		<description>Dan, I wore sandals to an early morning leadership meeting at the Stake Center on one occasion. No one said a word to me about my choice of footwear. I too was ready with the the same defense! :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan, I wore sandals to an early morning leadership meeting at the Stake Center on one occasion. No one said a word to me about my choice of footwear. I too was ready with the the same defense! <img src='http://www.millennialstar.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/the-church-of-casual-saints/comment-page-1/#comment-42739</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 18:34:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3898#comment-42739</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s nothing wrong with Tevas. :)

The wearing of sandals, or of clothes not part of the &quot;norm&quot; does not speak to the true nature of one&#039;s belief in God and can even be seen as window dressing by those who are sinners within but keep the nice dress or suit on so they look the part and can evade scrutiny. And yes, I&#039;ve worn my Tevas to the temple (and just about everywhere else) without anyone telling me to leave or even making a critique of my choice of footwear. 

It of course should not be necessary to remind others that Jesus himself wore sandals and even had a beard!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s nothing wrong with Tevas. <img src='http://www.millennialstar.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>The wearing of sandals, or of clothes not part of the &#8220;norm&#8221; does not speak to the true nature of one&#8217;s belief in God and can even be seen as window dressing by those who are sinners within but keep the nice dress or suit on so they look the part and can evade scrutiny. And yes, I&#8217;ve worn my Tevas to the temple (and just about everywhere else) without anyone telling me to leave or even making a critique of my choice of footwear. </p>
<p>It of course should not be necessary to remind others that Jesus himself wore sandals and even had a beard!</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Duffin</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/the-church-of-casual-saints/comment-page-1/#comment-42690</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Duffin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 14:29:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3898#comment-42690</guid>
		<description>Admit it, Geoff, that is something you WOULD do (work the recommend desk). ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Admit it, Geoff, that is something you WOULD do (work the recommend desk). <img src='http://www.millennialstar.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Geoff B</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/the-church-of-casual-saints/comment-page-1/#comment-42666</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 11:26:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3898#comment-42666</guid>
		<description>Book, just to be clear, it wasn&#039;t me working at the temple recommend desk.  I&#039;ve actually never done that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Book, just to be clear, it wasn&#8217;t me working at the temple recommend desk.  I&#8217;ve actually never done that.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Duffin</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/the-church-of-casual-saints/comment-page-1/#comment-42615</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Duffin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 03:25:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3898#comment-42615</guid>
		<description>Great comment Bookslinger. My parents had a homeless man who attended their ward for several weeks. He was treated very well by ward members and his wants were taken care of until he finally stopped coming. If the ward had been casual in observing true religion, this man would have gone without. What a blessing it is to be able to embrace whoever it is that walks through the chapel doors. In my estimation, that is what the Savior would do!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great comment Bookslinger. My parents had a homeless man who attended their ward for several weeks. He was treated very well by ward members and his wants were taken care of until he finally stopped coming. If the ward had been casual in observing true religion, this man would have gone without. What a blessing it is to be able to embrace whoever it is that walks through the chapel doors. In my estimation, that is what the Savior would do!</p>
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		<title>By: Bookslinger</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/the-church-of-casual-saints/comment-page-1/#comment-42612</link>
		<dc:creator>Bookslinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 03:15:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3898#comment-42612</guid>
		<description>rbc: re: clothing at temple.

My understanding is that the instruction to wear Sunday clothes when going to the temple comes from the Brethren.  The Bishop and the teachers of the Temple prep classes usually (at least they&#039;re supposed to) explain the dress code for going to the temple.  The Bishop is in a position to notice what people wear to sacrament and help them with either loving instruction, or monetarily, so that they have some appropriate (according to the standards that the Brethren set) for  wearing to the temple. 

I don&#039;t know if the standard for men is a matching suit, or if a nice sport coat with dress pants would suffice.   But Geoff did the right thing, with the temple pres sending the info back to the Stake Pres, so that it would be kept confidential, where the Stake Pres and the person&#039;s bishop could confidentially educate the person without embarrassment, or help them out monetarily to buy some nicer clothes at Goodwill.  

I&#039;ve seen some real good deals on NICE clothes at Goodwill, and if I were a bishop, I&#039;d have no problem giving a temple-rec-holding family or individual some money to get clothing that was appropriate to wear to the temple.

I don&#039;t currently have a temple recommend, but, hopefully, those who do qualify for one would be humble enough to either receive instruction from their bishop/Stake Pres on the appropriate dress, and if needed, receive church assistance to purchase appropriate clothing.

The temple is not a chapel where any scruffy bum off the street can enter.  

And, just for the record, I&#039;ve seen a scruffy bum off the street come into an LDS chapel during the winter.  Frankly, I thought he came in just to get warm, and possibly get a handout. But I observed the other members treating him with as much dignity as they would have afforded the mayor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rbc: re: clothing at temple.</p>
<p>My understanding is that the instruction to wear Sunday clothes when going to the temple comes from the Brethren.  The Bishop and the teachers of the Temple prep classes usually (at least they&#8217;re supposed to) explain the dress code for going to the temple.  The Bishop is in a position to notice what people wear to sacrament and help them with either loving instruction, or monetarily, so that they have some appropriate (according to the standards that the Brethren set) for  wearing to the temple. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if the standard for men is a matching suit, or if a nice sport coat with dress pants would suffice.   But Geoff did the right thing, with the temple pres sending the info back to the Stake Pres, so that it would be kept confidential, where the Stake Pres and the person&#8217;s bishop could confidentially educate the person without embarrassment, or help them out monetarily to buy some nicer clothes at Goodwill.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen some real good deals on NICE clothes at Goodwill, and if I were a bishop, I&#8217;d have no problem giving a temple-rec-holding family or individual some money to get clothing that was appropriate to wear to the temple.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t currently have a temple recommend, but, hopefully, those who do qualify for one would be humble enough to either receive instruction from their bishop/Stake Pres on the appropriate dress, and if needed, receive church assistance to purchase appropriate clothing.</p>
<p>The temple is not a chapel where any scruffy bum off the street can enter.  </p>
<p>And, just for the record, I&#8217;ve seen a scruffy bum off the street come into an LDS chapel during the winter.  Frankly, I thought he came in just to get warm, and possibly get a handout. But I observed the other members treating him with as much dignity as they would have afforded the mayor.</p>
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		<title>By: Joyce Brinton Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/the-church-of-casual-saints/comment-page-1/#comment-42579</link>
		<dc:creator>Joyce Brinton Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 22:10:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3898#comment-42579</guid>
		<description>JA...I want to come to the High Holy Days with you!!  We only have a Jewish Community center in our town, and I don&#039;t even know if there is a synagouge in Santa Fe (our nearest big town).  That would be so awsome!  And I have to say that after reading your post about Thanksgiving and Sukkot, we&#039;ll be doing Sukkot from now on too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JA&#8230;I want to come to the High Holy Days with you!!  We only have a Jewish Community center in our town, and I don&#8217;t even know if there is a synagouge in Santa Fe (our nearest big town).  That would be so awsome!  And I have to say that after reading your post about Thanksgiving and Sukkot, we&#8217;ll be doing Sukkot from now on too.</p>
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