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	<title>Comments on: Supporting the Church&#8217;s position on SSM (part 2)</title>
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		<title>By: Connor</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/supporting-the-churchs-position-on-ssm-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-31237</link>
		<dc:creator>Connor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 20:45:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/06/24/supporting-the-churchs-position-on-ssm-part-2/#comment-31237</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;The Church News Room has posted the Amicus Brief that was filed by the coalition in California.&lt;/em&gt;

I was quite intrigued to see Kenneth Starr as the leading attorney.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>The Church News Room has posted the Amicus Brief that was filed by the coalition in California.</em></p>
<p>I was quite intrigued to see Kenneth Starr as the leading attorney.</p>
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		<title>By: JillEE</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/supporting-the-churchs-position-on-ssm-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-31236</link>
		<dc:creator>JillEE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 20:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/06/24/supporting-the-churchs-position-on-ssm-part-2/#comment-31236</guid>
		<description>In response to HeLi (although this is a little late) 

The Church News Room has posted the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.newsroom.lds.org/Static%20Files/Newsroom/News%20Releases%202007/DOCS-1002214-v1-California_SGM_Brief--Supreme_Court.PDF&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Amicus Brief&lt;/a&gt; that was filed by the coalition in California. It actually gave me some great insights into the legal side of this question. I know it still employs some religion, but it also argued the societal consequences. Anyway, just my two cents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to HeLi (although this is a little late) </p>
<p>The Church News Room has posted the <a href="http://www.newsroom.lds.org/Static%20Files/Newsroom/News%20Releases%202007/DOCS-1002214-v1-California_SGM_Brief--Supreme_Court.PDF" rel="nofollow">Amicus Brief</a> that was filed by the coalition in California. It actually gave me some great insights into the legal side of this question. I know it still employs some religion, but it also argued the societal consequences. Anyway, just my two cents.</p>
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		<title>By: Muslihoon</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/supporting-the-churchs-position-on-ssm-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-31049</link>
		<dc:creator>Muslihoon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 15:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/06/24/supporting-the-churchs-position-on-ssm-part-2/#comment-31049</guid>
		<description>It is certainly not easy to go and do when the prophet of God asks us to.

As much as this is an issue that affects the nation, the prophet&#039;s involvement makes this an issue of our own spiritual progression: will we put down the natural person (which, for various reasons and by various ways convinces us to refute the prophet if not oppose him) and become a saint and follow God&#039;s prophet?

No matter how this issue pans out in the end, being tested and tried in following the prophet will bear fruit for our own spiritual progression. If we obey, to our benefit; if we disobey, to our demerit.

At least that&#039;s how I see it, in large measure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is certainly not easy to go and do when the prophet of God asks us to.</p>
<p>As much as this is an issue that affects the nation, the prophet&#8217;s involvement makes this an issue of our own spiritual progression: will we put down the natural person (which, for various reasons and by various ways convinces us to refute the prophet if not oppose him) and become a saint and follow God&#8217;s prophet?</p>
<p>No matter how this issue pans out in the end, being tested and tried in following the prophet will bear fruit for our own spiritual progression. If we obey, to our benefit; if we disobey, to our demerit.</p>
<p>At least that&#8217;s how I see it, in large measure.</p>
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		<title>By: aloysiusmiller</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/supporting-the-churchs-position-on-ssm-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-31048</link>
		<dc:creator>aloysiusmiller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 12:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/06/24/supporting-the-churchs-position-on-ssm-part-2/#comment-31048</guid>
		<description>I have been mulling over the title of this post for a bit. In a sense there is no &quot;church&quot; that has a position. Only people take positions.  We are only a church if we are united on the positions that our leaders ask us to take. If we make the church an &quot;other&quot; and an object then we are separating ourself from it and the people who unitedly call themselves a church.

But the blog is a good one and so are the comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been mulling over the title of this post for a bit. In a sense there is no &#8220;church&#8221; that has a position. Only people take positions.  We are only a church if we are united on the positions that our leaders ask us to take. If we make the church an &#8220;other&#8221; and an object then we are separating ourself from it and the people who unitedly call themselves a church.</p>
<p>But the blog is a good one and so are the comments.</p>
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		<title>By: R Biddulph</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/supporting-the-churchs-position-on-ssm-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-31041</link>
		<dc:creator>R Biddulph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:39:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/06/24/supporting-the-churchs-position-on-ssm-part-2/#comment-31041</guid>
		<description>Marriage reflects the natural moral and social law evidenced the world over. As the late British social anthropologist Joseph Daniel Unwin noted in his study of world civilizations, any society that devalued the nuclear family soon lost what he called &quot;expansive energy,&quot; which might best be summarized as society&#039;s will to make things better for the next generation. In fact, no society that has loosened sexual morality outside of man-woman marriage has survived.

 Analyzing studies of cultures spanning several thousands of years on several continents, Harvard Chairman of the Sociology Department, Pitirim Sorokin, found that virtually all political revolutions that brought about societal collapse were preceded by a sexual revolution in which marriage and family were devalued by the culture’s acceptance of homosexuality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marriage reflects the natural moral and social law evidenced the world over. As the late British social anthropologist Joseph Daniel Unwin noted in his study of world civilizations, any society that devalued the nuclear family soon lost what he called &#8220;expansive energy,&#8221; which might best be summarized as society&#8217;s will to make things better for the next generation. In fact, no society that has loosened sexual morality outside of man-woman marriage has survived.</p>
<p> Analyzing studies of cultures spanning several thousands of years on several continents, Harvard Chairman of the Sociology Department, Pitirim Sorokin, found that virtually all political revolutions that brought about societal collapse were preceded by a sexual revolution in which marriage and family were devalued by the culture’s acceptance of homosexuality.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff B.</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/supporting-the-churchs-position-on-ssm-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-30928</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 11:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/06/24/supporting-the-churchs-position-on-ssm-part-2/#comment-30928</guid>
		<description>Heli, this are good point.  Of course, Church leaders have made arguments like these.  The Church as an institution has to be careful about avoiding religious arguments because its position as a religious organization requires its focus be in that area.  However, we as individual members should of course mention arguments such as yours because they are persuasive and, ultimately, of supreme importance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heli, this are good point.  Of course, Church leaders have made arguments like these.  The Church as an institution has to be careful about avoiding religious arguments because its position as a religious organization requires its focus be in that area.  However, we as individual members should of course mention arguments such as yours because they are persuasive and, ultimately, of supreme importance.</p>
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		<title>By: HeLi</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/supporting-the-churchs-position-on-ssm-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-30927</link>
		<dc:creator>HeLi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jun 2008 20:28:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/06/24/supporting-the-churchs-position-on-ssm-part-2/#comment-30927</guid>
		<description>While researching Miike, Hawaii&#039;s SSM case, I noticed the reliance on religious arguments in the legal briefs submitted to Hawaii&#039;s Supreme Court, which subsequently held that restrictions were unconstitutional.  Miike was overruled by the people of Hawaii amending the state constitution.

While religion may be one of the motivations for our position, we need to render to Caesar that which is Caesar&#039;s.  In other words we need to have a cohesive Constitutional/public policy reason to oppose SSM; scriptural passages are not the most convincing vehicle for political change in a pluralistic society.

I would suggest that the message should be along the lines that the state does not have an interested in promulgating SSM any more than the state has an interest in promoting relationships between best friends or other social relationships. The state has a compelling interest in promoting commitment between men and women.  The state has an interested in encouraging families where children are loved and supported.  The state may not discriminate against couples for reasons of race, religion, or nationality.

While its true that marriage does not entail children, that doesn&#039;t erase the fact that traditional marriage makes planned child birth much more likely.  All the state can do in a free society is encourage family creation each step along the path.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While researching Miike, Hawaii&#8217;s SSM case, I noticed the reliance on religious arguments in the legal briefs submitted to Hawaii&#8217;s Supreme Court, which subsequently held that restrictions were unconstitutional.  Miike was overruled by the people of Hawaii amending the state constitution.</p>
<p>While religion may be one of the motivations for our position, we need to render to Caesar that which is Caesar&#8217;s.  In other words we need to have a cohesive Constitutional/public policy reason to oppose SSM; scriptural passages are not the most convincing vehicle for political change in a pluralistic society.</p>
<p>I would suggest that the message should be along the lines that the state does not have an interested in promulgating SSM any more than the state has an interest in promoting relationships between best friends or other social relationships. The state has a compelling interest in promoting commitment between men and women.  The state has an interested in encouraging families where children are loved and supported.  The state may not discriminate against couples for reasons of race, religion, or nationality.</p>
<p>While its true that marriage does not entail children, that doesn&#8217;t erase the fact that traditional marriage makes planned child birth much more likely.  All the state can do in a free society is encourage family creation each step along the path.</p>
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		<title>By: Connor</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/supporting-the-churchs-position-on-ssm-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-30916</link>
		<dc:creator>Connor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:14:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/06/24/supporting-the-churchs-position-on-ssm-part-2/#comment-30916</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;There is a conf call today as part of that effort.&lt;/em&gt;

Looks like they&#039;re not handing out the number.  They want people to go to one of the 43+ locations they&#039;ve set up.  Darn - I&#039;d love to listen in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>There is a conf call today as part of that effort.</em></p>
<p>Looks like they&#8217;re not handing out the number.  They want people to go to one of the 43+ locations they&#8217;ve set up.  Darn &#8211; I&#8217;d love to listen in.</p>
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		<title>By: Connor</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/supporting-the-churchs-position-on-ssm-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-30915</link>
		<dc:creator>Connor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:07:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/06/24/supporting-the-churchs-position-on-ssm-part-2/#comment-30915</guid>
		<description>I like Brian&#039;s idea: spread the word.  Contact friends/family, raise their awareness of the issue, encourage them to vote, and ask them to send their friends/family an email about it.  

After Utah&#039;s dismal participation in yesterday&#039;s primary, I think we have learned once again that the issues are decided by a minority.  Granted, hot topics such as this one will certainly attract more people to the polls, but getting people off their duffs is the first step.

My mom was heavily involved in Prop. 22, and will likely be in the thick of this amendment stuff.  (I&#039;m from San Diego.) So, I&#039;ll likely be finding out from her ways that I can support her efforts remotely, whether by donating money to various organizations (as noted in some comments above), talking to people who live there, or whatever.

Another thing to consider (and one I promoted w/ the FLDS issue) was to put your local reps&#039; feet to the fire and make sure they know that you &lt;em&gt;never&lt;/em&gt; want that happening in your state.  Living in Utah now, that&#039;s still an unlikely occurrence (though one never knows), but I think it is important that we make our elected leaders aware of what&#039;s going on elsewhere, and why we don&#039;t want it happening here.

This initiative is just getting started, so as yet, I&#039;m not entirely sure of the best way for us &quot;foreigners&quot; to jump in.  I&#039;m sure that opportunities will present themselves, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like Brian&#8217;s idea: spread the word.  Contact friends/family, raise their awareness of the issue, encourage them to vote, and ask them to send their friends/family an email about it.  </p>
<p>After Utah&#8217;s dismal participation in yesterday&#8217;s primary, I think we have learned once again that the issues are decided by a minority.  Granted, hot topics such as this one will certainly attract more people to the polls, but getting people off their duffs is the first step.</p>
<p>My mom was heavily involved in Prop. 22, and will likely be in the thick of this amendment stuff.  (I&#8217;m from San Diego.) So, I&#8217;ll likely be finding out from her ways that I can support her efforts remotely, whether by donating money to various organizations (as noted in some comments above), talking to people who live there, or whatever.</p>
<p>Another thing to consider (and one I promoted w/ the FLDS issue) was to put your local reps&#8217; feet to the fire and make sure they know that you <em>never</em> want that happening in your state.  Living in Utah now, that&#8217;s still an unlikely occurrence (though one never knows), but I think it is important that we make our elected leaders aware of what&#8217;s going on elsewhere, and why we don&#8217;t want it happening here.</p>
<p>This initiative is just getting started, so as yet, I&#8217;m not entirely sure of the best way for us &#8220;foreigners&#8221; to jump in.  I&#8217;m sure that opportunities will present themselves, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff B.</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/supporting-the-churchs-position-on-ssm-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-30914</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/06/24/supporting-the-churchs-position-on-ssm-part-2/#comment-30914</guid>
		<description>Anybody interested in more information on this issue may want to go to this web site:

http://www.protectmarriage.com/newsdetail.php?newsId=322

Some interesting points:

--Christian and secular leaders statewide are organizing.
--There is a conf call today as part of that effort.
--A 40-day fast will be held from Sept. to early November.  It will be interesting to see if the Church urges members to participate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anybody interested in more information on this issue may want to go to this web site:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.protectmarriage.com/newsdetail.php?newsId=322" rel="nofollow">http://www.protectmarriage.com/newsdetail.php?newsId=322</a></p>
<p>Some interesting points:</p>
<p>&#8211;Christian and secular leaders statewide are organizing.<br />
&#8211;There is a conf call today as part of that effort.<br />
&#8211;A 40-day fast will be held from Sept. to early November.  It will be interesting to see if the Church urges members to participate.</p>
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