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	<title>Comments on: Something we can all celebrate</title>
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		<title>By: Nick Literski</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/something-we-can-all-celebrate/comment-page-1/#comment-41109</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Literski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 15:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3622#comment-41109</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t envy the challenge you face in that regard, Geoff.  Where there are loud and hateful voices taking a particular stand, any agreement with that position tends to render one &quot;guilty by association&quot; with the whole package of their rhetoric, etc.  On an issue like this, where there are strong emotions involved, it&#039;s sometimes hard for either side to avoid seeing the other as more than one-dimensional &quot;villians.&quot;  It&#039;s all too easy to associate those on the opposite side of the issue with the real extremists.

You make a good point about separating out the issues, and putting to rest those which aren&#039;t all that relevant to the specific question of marriage.  The LDS statement regarding housing and employment can be a step in the right direction on this point.  At the same time, however, I hope that future efforts along these lines can be just a bit more artful in their execution.  While I understand that LDS leaders must have been sensitive to seeing that their gesture wasn&#039;t misinterpreted, perhaps the official statement could have made that point without using language which honestly feels like a backhanded slap to many GLBT people.  If I had the chance to give &quot;friendly advice&quot; to the LDS public affairs staff, I&#039;d suggest that they replace &quot;do not do violence to the institution of marriage&quot; with something a little more temperate, such as &quot;do not impact the institution of marriage.&quot;  (I hope I can say that, Geoff, without running afoul of your desire for uplifting comments--if not, feel free to scratch the second paragraph.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t envy the challenge you face in that regard, Geoff.  Where there are loud and hateful voices taking a particular stand, any agreement with that position tends to render one &#8220;guilty by association&#8221; with the whole package of their rhetoric, etc.  On an issue like this, where there are strong emotions involved, it&#8217;s sometimes hard for either side to avoid seeing the other as more than one-dimensional &#8220;villians.&#8221;  It&#8217;s all too easy to associate those on the opposite side of the issue with the real extremists.</p>
<p>You make a good point about separating out the issues, and putting to rest those which aren&#8217;t all that relevant to the specific question of marriage.  The LDS statement regarding housing and employment can be a step in the right direction on this point.  At the same time, however, I hope that future efforts along these lines can be just a bit more artful in their execution.  While I understand that LDS leaders must have been sensitive to seeing that their gesture wasn&#8217;t misinterpreted, perhaps the official statement could have made that point without using language which honestly feels like a backhanded slap to many GLBT people.  If I had the chance to give &#8220;friendly advice&#8221; to the LDS public affairs staff, I&#8217;d suggest that they replace &#8220;do not do violence to the institution of marriage&#8221; with something a little more temperate, such as &#8220;do not impact the institution of marriage.&#8221;  (I hope I can say that, Geoff, without running afoul of your desire for uplifting comments&#8211;if not, feel free to scratch the second paragraph.)</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff B</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/something-we-can-all-celebrate/comment-page-1/#comment-41108</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3622#comment-41108</guid>
		<description>I occurs to me you comment #40 can be very illustrative, Nick.  I have ALWAYS held the position, probably since the 1980s, that there should be anti-discrimination laws based on sexual preference in hiring and housing.  The reasons are all of the reasons I state above.  Again, I just don&#039;t think employers should care about anything but job performance.

But because I have spent so much time writing about defense of marriage, the caricature is, &quot;oh, he&#039;s a right-wing homophobe.&quot;  Don&#039;t worry, I&#039;m aware of this caricature and it&#039;s frustrating for me.  I know this is trite, but I DID grow up in San Francisco, I&#039;ve been around gays all of my life, and I DON&#039;T feel uncomfortable around gays.  One of my roommates in college was openly gay, shared a bathroom with the guy, was friends with his boyfriend, etc.

So, separating out the issue of marriage from other gay rights issues is really, really important because we can concentrate on things that are important rather than the noise that is not relevant to the defense of marriage debate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I occurs to me you comment #40 can be very illustrative, Nick.  I have ALWAYS held the position, probably since the 1980s, that there should be anti-discrimination laws based on sexual preference in hiring and housing.  The reasons are all of the reasons I state above.  Again, I just don&#8217;t think employers should care about anything but job performance.</p>
<p>But because I have spent so much time writing about defense of marriage, the caricature is, &#8220;oh, he&#8217;s a right-wing homophobe.&#8221;  Don&#8217;t worry, I&#8217;m aware of this caricature and it&#8217;s frustrating for me.  I know this is trite, but I DID grow up in San Francisco, I&#8217;ve been around gays all of my life, and I DON&#8217;T feel uncomfortable around gays.  One of my roommates in college was openly gay, shared a bathroom with the guy, was friends with his boyfriend, etc.</p>
<p>So, separating out the issue of marriage from other gay rights issues is really, really important because we can concentrate on things that are important rather than the noise that is not relevant to the defense of marriage debate.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff B</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/something-we-can-all-celebrate/comment-page-1/#comment-41107</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3622#comment-41107</guid>
		<description>Nick, thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick, thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Literski</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/something-we-can-all-celebrate/comment-page-1/#comment-41106</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Literski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3622#comment-41106</guid>
		<description>I, for one, appreciate your comments in this post, Geoff.  You and I obviously disagree on many things, but you&#039;ve made some comments here which have really impressed me.  It&#039;s nice to see that some of my earlier impressions were more charicature than reality.  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I, for one, appreciate your comments in this post, Geoff.  You and I obviously disagree on many things, but you&#8217;ve made some comments here which have really impressed me.  It&#8217;s nice to see that some of my earlier impressions were more charicature than reality.  <img src='http://www.millennialstar.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Geoff B</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/something-we-can-all-celebrate/comment-page-1/#comment-41105</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3622#comment-41105</guid>
		<description>Personally, I think it&#039;s important as an intellectual exercise for people to think through this issue.  That&#039;s one of the reasons blogs exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I think it&#8217;s important as an intellectual exercise for people to think through this issue.  That&#8217;s one of the reasons blogs exist.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris H.</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/something-we-can-all-celebrate/comment-page-1/#comment-41104</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 13:15:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3622#comment-41104</guid>
		<description>Mark,

I have often felt that way about Sutherland, but I am far left, so it is good to hear it from you. I think they get a lot of attention in Utah because they are one of the only think tanks in town.

Bryce,

It was a good exercise all around. No hard feelings, I hope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark,</p>
<p>I have often felt that way about Sutherland, but I am far left, so it is good to hear it from you. I think they get a lot of attention in Utah because they are one of the only think tanks in town.</p>
<p>Bryce,</p>
<p>It was a good exercise all around. No hard feelings, I hope.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark D.</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/something-we-can-all-celebrate/comment-page-1/#comment-41103</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 07:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3622#comment-41103</guid>
		<description>Bryce H, I don&#039;t think your comments are out of line, but that is certainly not a popular position you have been defending there. I can certainly appreciate why some of the (rather uncommon) but more extreme displays would make a lot of people uncomfortable.  However, I think there are much more proper ways of dealing with that than refusing to hire someone based on sexual orientation alone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bryce H, I don&#8217;t think your comments are out of line, but that is certainly not a popular position you have been defending there. I can certainly appreciate why some of the (rather uncommon) but more extreme displays would make a lot of people uncomfortable.  However, I think there are much more proper ways of dealing with that than refusing to hire someone based on sexual orientation alone.</p>
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		<title>By: Bryce Haymond</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/something-we-can-all-celebrate/comment-page-1/#comment-41099</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryce Haymond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 05:32:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3622#comment-41099</guid>
		<description>Sorry all.  My comments were out of line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry all.  My comments were out of line.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark D.</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/something-we-can-all-celebrate/comment-page-1/#comment-41098</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 04:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3622#comment-41098</guid>
		<description>&quot;Paleoconservative&quot; is another word for that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Paleoconservative&#8221; is another word for that.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark D.</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/something-we-can-all-celebrate/comment-page-1/#comment-41097</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 04:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3622#comment-41097</guid>
		<description>All I can say is the Sutherland Institute is far off the charts for a conservative think tank.  Sometimes they like to give the impression that they are the Utah equivalent of the Heritage Foundation, but unlike the latter (which is rather mainstream) they are so backwards a candidate that adopted their recommended positions probably couldn&#039;t ever get elected to a statewide office, for example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I can say is the Sutherland Institute is far off the charts for a conservative think tank.  Sometimes they like to give the impression that they are the Utah equivalent of the Heritage Foundation, but unlike the latter (which is rather mainstream) they are so backwards a candidate that adopted their recommended positions probably couldn&#8217;t ever get elected to a statewide office, for example.</p>
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