“Founding” and “foundation” could be thought of as two rather different things. What I get out of 1 Nephi 13 is as follows:

God brought gentiles to the promised land. He used them to punish the Lamanites. God prospered them in the land. Since they were humble he gave them power to fight against the mother Gentiles. They brought with them the Bible. The Bible has already been corrupted by the GAC. Many of the Gentiles stumble because of the corruptions. The Gentiles will not totally destroy the Lamanites.

I am more tempted to read this as an account of a “founding” rather than “foundation”. This is how the founding of the Gentile nation took place (although I suppose some would have a problem reading this in terms of the founding of the US). The founding refers to historical events. The foundation refers to the principles on which the nation is based on. If we want to talk about extracting principles from this account, I’m not sure what we’ll come up with. Undoubtedly it would include things such as the rightful persecution of Native Americans, which I imagine we would agree is not a foundation for the nation.

I suppose we could also take the other route, which would be to say that things such as the persecution of Natives were in fact part of the foundation (slavery was too of course), but that the foundation has changed. That being the case, why are the current values of the nation necessarily Judeo-Christian ones? Even if we say that Christians were the ones to bring these values to bear in the founding of the nation, doesn’t it matter that these values transcend the boundaries of Christianity? Even if these founders incorporated these values in the name of a Christian God, which many would say they did not do, these values all have a history and that history most certainly extends beyond simply Christianity.

I think regardless of our political leanings and beliefs on whether America is or is not a Judeo-Christian nation, we all expect good government. The scriptures are replete with examples of what happens to the people when the government and people are evil.

Proverbs 14:34- Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.

Smallaxe, I read 1 Nephi 13 as discussing the founding of the United States primarily and other American nations. Columbus was moved by the Holy Ghost. The Bible is the book that proceedeth from the Jews and was an important founding document for many Americans, both in the United States and elsewhere. The Pilgrims and Catholic conquistadores were Christians inspired by a Jewish Bible. Therefore, the foundation of the Americas is “Judeo-Christian.”

I actually never did mind Bush’s religious rhetoric. Nothing against him personally at all, though you are right that I disagreed with many (though not all) of his policies.

“Those actions for me are a despot wanting desperately to be loved by other despots. The only thing in his way is the Constitution of the United States, and he is slowly getting rid of that.”

LOL. Thanks for the good start to my morning. I was trying to address the issue religion in the public sphere. You insist on making it a partisan bickering match. I am still smiling.

Sounds like George W. Bush, and I doubt you liked him. I am not impressed with his “Religion speak” as his actions speak louder than his words. Those actions for me are a despot wanting desperately to be loved by other despots. The only thing in his way is the Constitution of the United States, and he is slowly getting rid of that.

Re #25 and 28: My sense is that the notion that people need to check their religion at the door in order to participate in public forums is waning. Part of this is because, IMO, many of the religious people that want to participate in these kinds of forums are more sensitive to how they bring their religious convictions into play. The thought seems to be something like, “We shouldn’t force our religious beliefs on those who cannot be persuaded by them, but neither should we pretend like we can ignore part of who we are.”