Comments on: Part VI LDS and the Sephardic Connection: Braving the New World: The Lost Colony of Roanoke http://www.millennialstar.org/part-vi-lds-and-the-sephardic-connection-braving-the-new-world-the-lost-colony-of-roanoke/ Thu, 09 Feb 2012 01:51:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: » Part VIII Sephardic Jews and the LDS Connection: What the Heck is a Melungeon? The Millennial Star http://www.millennialstar.org/part-vi-lds-and-the-sephardic-connection-braving-the-new-world-the-lost-colony-of-roanoke/comment-page-1/#comment-43600 » Part VIII Sephardic Jews and the LDS Connection: What the Heck is a Melungeon? The Millennial Star Tue, 08 Dec 2009 03:14:28 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3526#comment-43600 [...] more information see:  part I part II part  III part IV part V part VI part VII Posted in General. Tags: Melungeon. RSS. [...] [...] more information see:  part I part II part  III part IV part V part VI part VII Posted in General. Tags: Melungeon. RSS. [...]

]]> By: marylee mitcham http://www.millennialstar.org/part-vi-lds-and-the-sephardic-connection-braving-the-new-world-the-lost-colony-of-roanoke/comment-page-1/#comment-41293 marylee mitcham Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:57:51 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3526#comment-41293 Ben and Joanna, We are in the middle of building on to our house, and I can't spare the time to go through all my unorganized research, alas. I'd love to concentrate only on that! But Joanna and I gave papers at Sunstone summer before last, and I recorded the de Prato on the tape, which I know was accurately taken from my old paper. It is completely possible that I said de Prado. But because that's the name of a museum in Madrid, the Prado, I don't think I did record it as such. One of the problems of searching out ancestors is that after a few generations, even, there are so many lines. I think some of my lines did come through Italy, eg. the Laniers who may have "been" Italian before they were French. I can feel in my gut after seeing so many Bassano/ Lanier lines with photos, that I am related to them. I fervently hope so! I find them to be so cool: dark, beautiful, artistic, musical. There's an ongoing "fight" about their crypto-JUDAISM I'm a Bassano wanna-be. I do know for sure I'm a Lanier, but it's tricky bec there are a ton of Mary Laniers. Life it too short! marylee Ben and Joanna,
We are in the middle of building on to our house, and I can’t spare the time to go through all my unorganized research, alas. I’d love to concentrate only on that! But Joanna and I gave papers at Sunstone summer before last, and I recorded the de Prato on the tape, which I know was accurately taken from my old paper. It is completely possible that I said de Prado. But because that’s the name of a museum in Madrid, the Prado, I don’t think I did record it as such. One of the problems of searching out ancestors is that after a few generations, even, there are so many lines. I think some of my lines did come through Italy, eg. the Laniers who may have “been” Italian before they were French.
I can feel in my gut after seeing so many Bassano/ Lanier lines with photos, that I am related to them. I fervently hope so! I find them to be so cool: dark, beautiful, artistic, musical. There’s an ongoing “fight” about their crypto-JUDAISM I’m a Bassano wanna-be. I do know for sure I’m a Lanier, but it’s tricky bec there are a ton of Mary Laniers. Life it too short! marylee

]]> By: JA Benson http://www.millennialstar.org/part-vi-lds-and-the-sephardic-connection-braving-the-new-world-the-lost-colony-of-roanoke/comment-page-1/#comment-41277 JA Benson Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:02:02 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3526#comment-41277 Ok Ben, DePrado it is. Ok Ben, DePrado it is.

]]> By: Ben Pratt http://www.millennialstar.org/part-vi-lds-and-the-sephardic-connection-braving-the-new-world-the-lost-colony-of-roanoke/comment-page-1/#comment-41273 Ben Pratt Tue, 17 Nov 2009 20:10:50 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3526#comment-41273 Marylee, that's great stuff. I was just curious about the provenance of the paper, since it sounds like it might have been made when someone decided to write down an oral tradition that had been passed down the family. If so, I wonder if it might have originally been "de prado," which would be the Spanish or Portugese spelling, whereas "de prato" would be Italian, for example. They all (likely) come from the Latin for "meadow." Though only one letter different, "preto" is a whole different animal. It is indeed a Portuguese word for the color black. According to http://www.ciberduvidas.pt/pergunta.php?id=24373, which cites the Dicionário Eletrônico Houaiss, the Portuguese word "preto" comes from a Latin word indicating "dense" or "thick." The Portuguese wikipedia entry indicates the word is attested from the 10th century to describe people of subsaharan African descent, until the word "negro" replaced it with the introduction of slavery in about the 15th century, but I can't verify this (and I've tried). Marylee, that’s great stuff. I was just curious about the provenance of the paper, since it sounds like it might have been made when someone decided to write down an oral tradition that had been passed down the family. If so, I wonder if it might have originally been “de prado,” which would be the Spanish or Portugese spelling, whereas “de prato” would be Italian, for example. They all (likely) come from the Latin for “meadow.”

Though only one letter different, “preto” is a whole different animal. It is indeed a Portuguese word for the color black. According to http://www.ciberduvidas.pt/pergunta.php?id=24373, which cites the Dicionário Eletrônico Houaiss, the Portuguese word “preto” comes from a Latin word indicating “dense” or “thick.” The Portuguese wikipedia entry indicates the word is attested from the 10th century to describe people of subsaharan African descent, until the word “negro” replaced it with the introduction of slavery in about the 15th century, but I can’t verify this (and I’ve tried).

]]> By: marylee mitcham http://www.millennialstar.org/part-vi-lds-and-the-sephardic-connection-braving-the-new-world-the-lost-colony-of-roanoke/comment-page-1/#comment-41266 marylee mitcham Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:10:36 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3526#comment-41266 Oh, Ben, you asked where I got the sheet of paper that mentions the name change? Either from my grandmother Daniel whose mother-in-law was a Mead, or from some Mead cousins. The original was yellowed and mimeographed, but I made some copies. Would you like me to try and find one of them for you? I got it in the days when I had no clue it would one day be helpful ....that was the day DNA told me I was mostly Hispanic. What a shock. But that paper set me on my way of believing it. marylee Oh, Ben, you asked where I got the sheet of paper that mentions the name change? Either from my grandmother Daniel whose mother-in-law was a Mead, or from some Mead cousins. The original was yellowed and mimeographed, but I made some copies. Would you like me to try and find one of them for you? I got it in the days when I had no clue it would one day be helpful ….that was the day DNA told me I was mostly Hispanic. What a shock. But that paper set me on my way of believing it. marylee

]]> By: marylee mitcham http://www.millennialstar.org/part-vi-lds-and-the-sephardic-connection-braving-the-new-world-the-lost-colony-of-roanoke/comment-page-1/#comment-41265 marylee mitcham Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:01:34 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3526#comment-41265 Ben, that's very interesting that the words Pratt and Mead may be close as nouns. I've been thinking about de prato 2 ways. As I understand it there's a part of the coast of Portugal referred to as de Preto, and I thought it was probably where a lot of Portuguese Jews embarked for their next stage of the diaspora. I'm pretty sure some of my ancestors stayed in Sicily for generations, one reason being that my great grandfather was a member of some sort of fraternity that opened their meetings with two songs, one of them Sicilian and the other some sort of patriotic American song. I have also read that it was easier to be crypto-Jewish in Sicily than many other places for a long time. Also, I picked up a note somewhere that the word "preto" was loosely used to refer to people with darker rather than lighter skin like the Portuguese who, as far as I can tell, were all shades, but Mediterranean-looking in general. I don't know what it was like in Portugal generations ago, but I went to Portugal a few years ago, and there is obviously mixed blood that no one thinks anything about. I might have concluded that my positive test for up to 7% African was just mixed into my Hispanic ancestors who came in the 1500s, but I really don't think that covers it because Guiana (sp?) and other places were relevant on the test. I'm thinking slavery plays a part in me being me, and that my direct ancestors have been working hard to look white for quite awhile! Ben, that’s very interesting that the words Pratt and Mead may be close as nouns. I’ve been thinking about de prato 2 ways. As I understand it there’s a part of the coast of Portugal referred to as de Preto, and I thought it was probably where a lot of Portuguese Jews embarked for their next stage of the diaspora. I’m pretty sure some of my ancestors stayed in Sicily for generations, one reason being that my great grandfather was a member of some sort of fraternity that opened their meetings with two songs, one of them Sicilian and the other some sort of patriotic American song. I have also read that it was easier to be crypto-Jewish in Sicily than many other places for a long time. Also, I picked up a note somewhere that the word “preto” was loosely used to refer to people with darker rather than lighter skin like the Portuguese who, as far as I can tell, were all shades, but Mediterranean-looking in general. I don’t know what it was like in Portugal generations ago, but I went to Portugal a few years ago, and there is obviously mixed blood that no one thinks anything about. I might have concluded that my positive test for up to 7% African was just mixed into my Hispanic ancestors who came in the 1500s, but I really don’t think that covers it because Guiana (sp?) and other places were relevant on the test. I’m thinking slavery plays a part in me being me, and that my direct ancestors have been working hard to look white for quite awhile!

]]> By: Ben Pratt http://www.millennialstar.org/part-vi-lds-and-the-sephardic-connection-braving-the-new-world-the-lost-colony-of-roanoke/comment-page-1/#comment-41112 Ben Pratt Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:08:06 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3526#comment-41112 Mark, that's true for Y-chromosome testing (which I had done), at least. I don't know about other tests. It's good to know that about you, cousin! Mark, that’s true for Y-chromosome testing (which I had done), at least. I don’t know about other tests.

It’s good to know that about you, cousin!

]]> By: Mark D. http://www.millennialstar.org/part-vi-lds-and-the-sephardic-connection-braving-the-new-world-the-lost-colony-of-roanoke/comment-page-1/#comment-41102 Mark D. Thu, 12 Nov 2009 06:58:02 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3526#comment-41102 I have Pratt ancestors, but I understand that would be essentially impossible to establish via genetic testing because they are not on my male line, which goes back into Ireland somewhere. I have Pratt ancestors, but I understand that would be essentially impossible to establish via genetic testing because they are not on my male line, which goes back into Ireland somewhere.

]]> By: Ben Pratt http://www.millennialstar.org/part-vi-lds-and-the-sephardic-connection-braving-the-new-world-the-lost-colony-of-roanoke/comment-page-1/#comment-41100 Ben Pratt Thu, 12 Nov 2009 06:03:19 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3526#comment-41100 I impatiently await the next installment, Joanna! Yes, the Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation focuses on using DNA for genealogical purposes, thus for example it indicates Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor for me and other Pratts in the database. However it purposefully doesn't spit out haplogroup information. However, in a Pratt forum related to a DNA-testing company I found a Pratt from New Zealand whose paternal line goes back to William and John's brother who stayed in England, which is astonishing (indeed, I worked out that there is a 50% probability that our TMRCA is no more than 1830 years). There is also another Pratt there who is descended from Orson Pratt. Both of them are classified there as haplogroup R1b1b, which is prevalent in Western Europe. But that's only the paternal line. I would indeed like to do a broader analysis like you and Mike did, to get the bigger picture of all my ancestors rather than the one line. Marylee, it's interesting to note that both "Pratt" and "Mead" may come from words meaning meadow, from Latin and Old English, respectively. So Mead would have been a natural choice if coming from the continent to England as a de Prato! Who wrote on the paper you have? I impatiently await the next installment, Joanna!

Yes, the Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation focuses on using DNA for genealogical purposes, thus for example it indicates Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor for me and other Pratts in the database. However it purposefully doesn’t spit out haplogroup information.

However, in a Pratt forum related to a DNA-testing company I found a Pratt from New Zealand whose paternal line goes back to William and John’s brother who stayed in England, which is astonishing (indeed, I worked out that there is a 50% probability that our TMRCA is no more than 1830 years). There is also another Pratt there who is descended from Orson Pratt. Both of them are classified there as haplogroup R1b1b, which is prevalent in Western Europe. But that’s only the paternal line. I would indeed like to do a broader analysis like you and Mike did, to get the bigger picture of all my ancestors rather than the one line.

Marylee, it’s interesting to note that both “Pratt” and “Mead” may come from words meaning meadow, from Latin and Old English, respectively. So Mead would have been a natural choice if coming from the continent to England as a de Prato! Who wrote on the paper you have?

]]> By: JA Benson http://www.millennialstar.org/part-vi-lds-and-the-sephardic-connection-braving-the-new-world-the-lost-colony-of-roanoke/comment-page-1/#comment-41068 JA Benson Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:29:51 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=3526#comment-41068 Ok Ben. We have not covered this part yet. Tell me what you think. The Hassidic and Sephardic Jews were followers of Kabbalah. Kabbalists say Kabbalah was oral tradition handed down from Adam. In fact it was the Sephardic Jews in Northern Spain, Portugal, Egypt, and France who were the great Kabbalist teachers. It was the Sephardim who wrote the commentaries all down and later got the commentaries printed. Some of the Knights Templars were Converso Jews (naturally) who introduced the Kabbalah to the other Christians and then later evolved into the whole Scottish and Masonic rites. Let us know about your DNA test. Is it the paternal test? If so, will it tell you about your Pratts? If I am correct, your test will tell you about specific relations. My test covered maternal and Paternal markers of where they have been, but not specific relation. Ok Ben. We have not covered this part yet. Tell me what you think.

The Hassidic and Sephardic Jews were followers of Kabbalah. Kabbalists say Kabbalah was oral tradition handed down from Adam. In fact it was the Sephardic Jews in Northern Spain, Portugal, Egypt, and France who were the great Kabbalist teachers. It was the Sephardim who wrote the commentaries all down and later got the commentaries printed. Some of the Knights Templars were Converso Jews (naturally) who introduced the Kabbalah to the other Christians and then later evolved into the whole Scottish and Masonic rites.

Let us know about your DNA test. Is it the paternal test? If so, will it tell you about your Pratts? If I am correct, your test will tell you about specific relations. My test covered maternal and Paternal markers of where they have been, but not specific relation.

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