Given that wards have only twelve Fast and Testimony meetings every year, each with approximately 35 minutes dedicated to the sharing of testimonies, and given that about 150 adult members attend a typical American ward, for each member to have an opportunity to share their testimony, each member is allocated 2 minutes and 48 seconds of testimony time yearly.
Given those facts, how should we handle members who speak for 5-8 minutes every month or two? (I know of someone in a full-size ward who monopolizes the pulpit for 5-8 minutes every testimony meeting.) What is the proper response to a member who eats 20 times their share of ham at the ward dinner, leaving many people without?
When their time is up, the organist can start playing some segue music, like on the awards shows. (Dance numbers – that’s what we need in sacrament meeting. But let’s avoid the commercial interruptions.) If they refuse to acquiesce to the musical hints, a loud and big red buzzer can go off. If that doesn’t work, then the ward must just accept defeat.
Okay, to be serious, is it really much of a problem? Actually, I suppose it is in some wards, but in most of my wards we’ve had no problems with people who have wanted to share their testimonies, but haven’t had time. Often there is a minute or two of silence where no one is up there, so the gap leads me to conclude that the time is sufficient.
It seems to me there are two types of people who take more than their share of time.
The first are those who are just somewhat out of touch with reality. Informing them that they need not share so much so often may or may not be effective, depending on how far out of touch they are.
The second are those who feel that if they don’t share they are being ungrateful (hence the common phrase, “I would be ungrateful if I didn’t come up todayâ€). Such people are also motivated either by a belief that a proper fast includes the bearing of testimony or that not sharing your testimony is a form of spiritual slacking.
If there were a problem in the ward, I think it would be wise to have someone in authority deny the preceding beliefs and confirm the fact that monthly sharing is not necessary.
Heckling from the audience might also work.
Tanya, I know of a ward that has two men that between them always take 10 minutes of F&T meeting, or approximately 30% of the available time. The ward never has pauses between testimonies of longer than 10 seconds and frequently has a queue of two or three people near the end of the meeting. I have no doubt there are people who would speak if there were more time. (I can’t imagine waiting one or two minutes for someone to stand up — I’ve never seen that anywhere. Your bishop needs to encourage more people to let their light shine!)
I also remember reading in the Sunstone article “We We Stay,” from the October 2003 issue, one of the contributors saying he’d clocked testimonies at his ward for two years, and found that the six regulars accounted for 48% of testimony meeting minutes. So while I don’t know how widespread the problem of pulpit hogging is, it does happen in at least two wards.
Eric,
While the two types of people you recognize might be a problem in some places, in my experience the people who are most tempted by pulpit hogging are those who think they have something especially important to say, and use testimony meeting as an opportunity to teach the congregation. Some might also say these type of people like to hear themselves talk.
The solution for those type of people, of course, is to start a blog! : )
I think we need to be respectful of those who tend to get off the beaten path a bit. I think most wards have read directives as to what constitues a proper testimony. However, a culture that has had many sharimonies can make it hard to change. I remember in speech class when asked to do introductions who my professer remarked that people started following the pattern and providing the data established early on. That makes me think that the more people hear what constitues a good testimony, the more they may emulate. There will probably always be a few who waxeth on a bit. I would hope though that every testimony whether it be long or short would be sincere and reflect that person’s conversion or faith in his or her life. I know some older ladies that have been such strong members and yet have been to shy to bear their testimony in their lives for Sacrament meeting. I have been a painfully shy person but have often found it easier to act or speak in public than relate to people on a personal level. Yet, sharing a testimony was very hard for me to get the nerve to do because you have to decide when to stand. When I first started, they would carry the microphone around which made it easier. Walking up to the front for the first time was about fighthing paralysis. Well, as much as I ramble in the course of many of my writings or conversations, I think that I am pretty to the point in my testimonies. At least I hope so, I will certainly be even more cognizant should I ever make it to Church again and have the opportunity to bear my testimony of your remarks here.
Matt, I would have never expected you to author a post like this. You are usually filled with love and compassion. Hmmm… what is your reasoning behind this? Give us more, please. I feel as if I would like additional info from you, as I also would like more info from the guys you say are monopolizing the pulpit at F&T meetings. There’s got to be more to the story. Have you seen people denied the opportunity to testify? Do you feel that these guys have somehow squelched the testimonies of others? Tell me more. Please?
a good question, we had a guy who would litterally take 20 mins each month, or longer, even though there were others waiting to get up. the bishop would always have to get up and tell him that it was time to wrap it up. i think that this is the best way to solve it, after all, the bishop is the one who is presiding over the meeting, and therefore it is up to him to determine what should be going on.
as far as piggly wigglies who eat more than their share, and then some, the only way i can think to solve that is not to do things buffet style. if the meals are served on plates then the portions are all dolled out evenly. then, if there is food left, those who want more can have it without taking someone else’s share.
The first thing to do, of course, is the ban the use of the word “share” in connection with the bearing of testimony. “Bear” it, “Declare” it, Shout it from the rooftops, but, for heaven’s sake, let’s get back to sharing our toys and popsicles and bearing witness.
The second thing to do is for the person conducting the meeting to set the example by bearing witness of some truth of the gospel–mini-sermons by a member of the bishopric set an example that others will follow.
Third, if there is a problem with “chronic time killers,” then it’s time for the bishop to speak privately with that person. Suggest other places where he/she could bear testimony. Teach what a testimony can be, and how a fervent testimony can help bring the Spirit into the ward.
Perhaps yearly instruction would be helpful. They could teach about what exactly a testimony is (and how to acquire one, to make the topic more complete), which would cut down on the friendimonies (“I know my roommates are true” – the quotes are there for the correct reason – ah, good memories). The appropriate length of testimonies in F&T meeting could be covered at this time. Perhaps also some instruction on other places and ways to bear testimony.
This could be taught during Sacrament Meeting if the bishopric use care in selecting the speakers, or if they do it themselves. It could also possibly be covered in that 5th Sunday combined PH/RS meeting, though fewer people would hear it that way (e.g., youth/child teachers would miss it).
This problem isn’t easily solved. At the direction of a few different bishops, I have asked around 10-12 people to stop giving their testimonies as often as they do because they get up too often, take too long, or either don’t share pertinent information (e.g., travelogue, or better yet, the current state of their health) or share experiences of too personal a nature (e.g., wife left them because she caught him fornicating or had a vision of visiting the hereafter). About half of those I asked to stop speaking so often stopped coming altogether. I still haven’t decided if it was the way I asked, or that it was that I asked at all, or that the only reason that they were coming in the first place was because they had a high need for disclosure and now they didn’t have means to disclose anymore.
Incidentally, my wife and I talk often about how differently we approach testimony meetings. I always find the open pulpit scary because the chance for false doctrine is so high, not to mention someone invariably gets up and bears their testimony about the “Work and the Glory” series. My wife, on the other hand, thinks that an unscripted, say what you feel type of meeting is much more spiritually edifying. I’m still trying to decide if our little schism is a gender issue or just an “us” issue.
In our ward, we just suffer in resentful, sometimes maniacally homicidal silence, pretty much.
Although, if I get too irritated, I take the direct approach. I told our bishop that I was ready to throw things at him when he talked so long constantly. He took in good humor, but I meant it. Thank God we have a new bishop, I loved him, but I get nauseous when people talk too much.
If somebody took twenty minutes every testimony meeting, I’d lay one on them. I think they think people don’t notice. I believe it is the height of hubris to think that whatever you have to say is more important than everybody else in the meeting.
I’ve often thought that the counsellor controlling the podium height should slowly and subtly lower the podium until the speaker realizes they are hunching over. The Mrs. and I have also thought they should systematically lower the volume.
Seriously, though, I think the bishopric should read the First Presidency letter each month. The one that talks about appropriate, brief testimonies not prompted by parents or older siblings.
Seriously, Charles, I absolutely love your idea. It now makes me long for the priesthood.
I served in a branch on my mission that had a pretty tyrannical president. He was the only available priesthood holder to serve though, so everybody was pretty much stuck, even though he didn’t really want to be the president, and nobody else really wanted him to, either. Part of his tyranny, though, was a meticulous attention to detail: he wanted his branch to run precisely the way a branch of the church should run. So, he posted instructions on bearing a testimony right outside the chapel. And left them there, permanently. They were the typical: “What is a testimony? It’s not a travelogue; it’s not a list of things you’re grateful for, kids shouldn’t bear their testimonies unless they can do it without help, etc.” but it was in plain view for all to see. I think it worked pretty well, although occasionally a bad testimony snuck in once in a while, usually by a less active member…
I think the key to avoiding the type of experience jimbob had is by making sure everyone gets the same instruction, repeatedly. By making it regular (yearly, monthly, etc.) you make it normal and natural so nobody feels singled out. Also, by repeating it often, eventually it will sink in, to most folk, anyway. I think even the most “out of touch with reality” will get the concept, if it’s repeated often enough.
Count me in with Jimbob’s wife. I love the quiddity of testimony meeting.
A. Nonny Mouse:
I disagree. My limited experience with this issue is that talks, lessons, etc. don’t work because nobody ever thinks you’re talking about their behavior. I have given too many talks where, while keeping it general, I spoke directly to people we discussed were having problems, but the very next week, up they came again. I’ve even started testimony meetings by saying that the topic should be the Savior or something directly related to Him and that silence was just fine in lieu of that (I was more tactful in my delivery). Same result. I think that in most cases, those who are misusing the pulpit don’t recognize they are doing so and so don’t see a need to modify their behavior. Accordingly, I think most members file these kinds of talks and lessons in the same place they file the ubiquitous reverence talk: in the folder marked “Useful Information for Everyone Else in the Ward.”
Cooper, I have admittedly grown short in patience with one brother I know who takes too much time in too many meetings. He’s the kind who begins his comment with something like, “Even though I don’t have anything to add to this discussion,” and then spends three minutes of class time summarizing the discussion from the last time the same issue was raised in Gospel Doctrine class. You are right that I should muster more compassion and patience for this brother, but I still believe that our obligation to listen to him doesn’t mean that we should let him monopolize every forum, or take dramatically more time than everyone else.
I think we should encourage more people to share their testimonies, but they won’t have the opportunity so long as the same members monopolize a large portion of the available time. Some people may need some spiritual prodding to overcome their reluctance to stand up, and they may be denied that prodding if there’s never a lull because the same people jump up any time there’s a break in the line.
Everyone,
Here’s another question: Would it be appropriate for the bishopric to point out that the average member has only a few minutes allotted to them yearly, and ask them to be respectful of other members’ opportunities to share their testimonies?
One of my daughters visited her sister in Pittsburgh, and got to hear General Hospital Revelations during the June testimony meeting. The high point was the report on a recent colonoscopy, with gratitude that all seemed to be fine.
My wife just got back from a week there, and was able to make it to the July testimony meeting. I am pleased to report that there was an update on the colonscopy testimony from the previous month, and the patient is still doing fine. Praise the Lord!
I’m jealous. I’ve never had a colonoscopy, and I don’t know that I could get two months of testimonies out of one when I get one. (Hmmm, that suggests something about somw of what we hear over the pulpit!)
An idea:
Testimony meeting
I think just having the Bishop make the request that people who’ve born their testimony the previous month allow others the opportunity would work well. I’m not sure going to people directly is the best idea, since the opportunity for hurt feelings, however carefully you phrase it, is high. Of course if they keep bearing testimony even after the public requests I think that the personal visit is appropriate. Just phrase it as asking them to allow some of the others who don’t have an opportunity to go up.
I think, however, one good solution is to have a few people assigned to give brief testimonies.
Here’s the problem with testimony meetings: there’s nothing new to say. Therefore, people either say the most outlandish, giggle-inducing or pity-producing thoughts for dramatic effect.
It gets boring to hear the same script over and over again, so people hope to spice things up with their personal monologues.
It doesn’t help that Church auxiliary lessons are so repetitive and the “Sunday School answers” are so trite. Testimony meetings are such a welcome respite to an otherwise boring LDS liturgy and curriculum.
The last branch I was in had one of those monthly TMI testimony bearers, who sat in the front row so she could be first up. As his counselor, I soon followed the example of the Elders’ Quorum President by getting up and leaving the chapel when she got up to talk. We came back in when she was done.
I haven’t had the guts to do that in my new branch yet.
Thank you Matt for expounding. In our ward the bishop used to tell people at the beginning of the meeting what a testimony was. He asked them politely to refrain from travelogues and visits with doctors. It seemed to work quite well. In our ward now – it’s a YSA ward – we have short, to the point, rarely random testimonies. I love it. I think everyone should get to go once in a while. 🙂
Clark, you have the best idea yet.
Although I like Charlie’s, too. It would be pretty entertaining.
Mark B., count your blessings, a colonoscopy is not fun, and I do not know how Katie Couric kept her composure during hers (she did it on national TV.)
1) Read the letter from the first presidency at the start of every F&T meeting. Oh, and wait until after sacrament to do it so that the 1/3 of the ward that doesn’t show up until then hears it.
2) The bishops really ought to be reigning these people in, tackling them after the meeting for a talk. Sure it’s difficult, like those poor bosses that have to give hygiene talks. But it’s got to be done.
3) I thought I was annoyed with our resident blatherer who used to bring props with her to show during her testimony (which was basically a public airing of her son’s sins) but then she got a job on Sundays and I kind of miss her. It’s really sick that I do. I know it’s like a car accident; you just have to look.
4) More than being annoyed by the crazy testimonies, I am more annoyed by people who complain about the emotional testimony bearers. Okay, ’cause I am one. And if you aren’t touched the same way by the Spirit that I am, you’re not a better or worse person so just get over it. Stop picking on the criers online. Meanies.
5) I second whoever said some people like to hear themselves talk. There are people who confuse bearing a testimony with giving a talk. They inform you on all sorts of things and basically give a lesson.
In short, there are lights on the podiums… I think they should use them!
A cynical person might say that one of the main reasons we still have testimony meetings is that it gives the bishopbric a once-a-month break from having to assign talks. It also gives the music arranger a break from having to find someone (or prepare a choir) to perform a special musical number. Finally, it provides some kind of institutional sign that Fast Sunday is different from any other Sunday.
So besides people bearing their testimonies, there are some other practical reasons for the meeting. Otherwise the thanktimonies, shareimonies, childimonies, etc. might have led to the abolition of testimony meeting a long time ago. By the way, unless someone is unusually obnoxious I’m usually ok with it. And reading this makes me self-conscious for all the dumb semi-random testimonies I might have shared during my life.
In answer to Matt’s question about telling people there are limited minutes, I am reminded of the public radio show “Whadda ya know”. During their call in portion for the quiz, one of the rules is “Those who have won in the last 30 days should sit on their hands and give someone else a chance for a change.”
Maybe we could modify it to “last 3 months”.
For the record, I’m not a stickler for testimony content. On the contrary, the testimonies I like best do not simply bear testimony but put their testimony in context with a story. Only by seeing them as a real person, someone I can understand and relate to, can I learn from them. Seldom do I feel the spirit when someone just lists the things they know to be true (no matter how contrived or dramatic the change in their voice).
My complaint is with those who too frequently speak too long — it’s rude to speak far more than your share.
Danithew — I admit that one of my purposes in asking this question was to create awareness that it may be rude to take too much time in testimony meeting. : )
I agree with Matt that testimonies really need some context to make them meaningful. I’m all for the KISS principle of keeping it short and simple. But I think people who just given four of five statements of belief aren’t really bearing an effective testimony either.
I think I’ve mentioned this before, but this is an excellent topic for a Bishop to use for a 5th Sunday discussion. Part of what makes that meeting a good place for it is that it’s separate from testimony meeting, so people don’t have to feel like all eyes are on them. The Bishop (or designates) instructs the group as to proper behavior, not singling out individuals.
Then, since the following Sunday is Fast Sunday, the person conducting that day can usually get away with a simple, “and let’s all try to remember and put into practice the guidelines for F&T meeting Brother and Sister Johanson taught us last week.”
Also, on Fast Sundays when I conduct the meeting, I always point out that we’d like to start the closing song by no later than 2:05 before I turn the podium over to the congregation.
It’s been my experience that most people will abide by the F&T rules if we are clear in advance as to what they are.
Maybe the motivation for some to bear their testimonies regularly is a desire for forgiveness of sins.
We had an individual member whose previous calling in this life was as a professional Baptist preacher. He bore his testimony every month — basically, if more than 60 seconds went by without someone getting up to talk, he took the rest of the hour.
Testimony meetings serve, for me, primarily as an effective reminder of why I could never be a Quaker. I’m terrified of extemporaneous speaking (I don’t like giving any talks at all, and usually spend about 25 hours preparing Sharing Time presentations, 10 hours preparing Institute devotionals and 3 hours on each Primary lesson I give to an average of 8 6-year-olds each week) and I never seem to hear any of the inspirational testimonies everyone else talks about having heard, though I’ve gotten a few lectures and calls to repentence and the occasional medical/travel update. It’s often an exercise in patience, and an opportunity to, well, practice the tips on reverence I tell my CTR-7s when they’ve been goofing off too much in Sharing Time. That’s actually a problem in getting a calling like that: now those kids are all looking at me during Sacrament meeting, and they tell me if I didn’t meet their standards of behavior. Also, they make faces at me during all those “boring” talks (i.e. any time anyone’s speaking at the microphone) and it can be hard to keep from laughing.
OOOO Chad too, I like that idea. That would be a great topic for discussion and it would benefit eveyone in attendance. It’d sure be better than the regular self flagellation of why no one does their home or visiting teaching.
Matt,
Maybe those who listen need to learn a lesson in all of this of tolerence and love. Or maybe the person has a very real and good reason for taking the time. Perhaps their eyes have not been opened to the fact that they may be inconsiderate.
This is painful for me even to this day to recollect. When I was a missionary and it was our Sunday to speak in Church I was so over zealous about my message and the importance of it that I monopolized time and did not let one of the fine Elders who was my zone leader at the time have his share. A lot of people complimented me on the talk. The ward mission leader who was an outstanding person and always treated me well and seemed to like me said pretty directly how if one person takes too long that it cuts down on another person’s time. This Elder and I were to go home on the same day. Evidently, the Bishop was not aware of this as I did not know him so well although I had gone on splits with his lovely wife. He asked that Elder to bear a parting testimony on the stand. I actually liked just sitting there and listening to his words. I think I was with his wife after this and in passing mentioned that I was also going home. She felt so terrible that I had not been asked to also bear my testimony. I assured her that it was okay. I think she even called me before I departed to again apologize and again I told her it was fine. Well, upon returning, I had the normal opportunities to speak after a few months. I approached this speeches with enthusiasm. One day one of the High Councilman was in the foyer at Church and we were visiting. I remarked how I get excited to give a talk. He was a rather quiet man and the father of my friend. He said in a serious but kind tone how the important part of speaking is to have the Holy Ghost present. I am not sure of his exact words but it hit me and humbled me. I had felt awful before when I spoke too long on my mission and now I had further realized my folly. Now I sincerely hope there have been times when I spoke that I was worthy to have the Holy Spirit. Now I have a fear of speaking in Church meetings as I worry about whether I am worthy enough. I do not mind giving speeches in other settings. I do not say this to make people overly apprehensive. You can only do your best and try to be worthy. I did make it to Church right before Christmas and was asked to speak. I regret that I tried to make to much of the occassion as I had to draw out the significance of how I had spoken just about that time over a decade ago on my feelings of Christ. I told how I thought I knew everything of him and how time had humbled me. Only you know what they say about if a person thinks they are humble that they are not. That is me. And I shared my poem about the birth of Christ about having no guile and having humility and I ruined it by trying to be eloquent. Well, people are so kind and they complimented me. Well, I am monopolizing time here too. I do not know if I will achieve the level that one should in this life but I hope that I am a work in progress.
Testimony meetings have their place: the first one I ever attended was so filled with the Spirit that it blew me away! But we need to remember that “supererogation” is not an LDS doctrine. Just as a $100,000 automobile is not necessarily 4 times as good as a $25,000 car, a 20-minute oration is not 10 times the value on earth or in heaven as a heartfelt 2-minute testimony. Some of the best testimonies I heard 1)focused on only one or two themes, 2)made a direct connection between an individual’s story and the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and 3)was supported by the witness of the Holy Ghost.