Comments on: Happy Pioneer Day!

By: Ivan Wolfe [Member]

Ivan Wolfe [Member] — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 04:19:17 +0000

More than one source claims this as Brigham Young's favorite song. About 5 years ago, I was in a ward where the ward choir sang this on Pioneer day weekend. Very cool.

I will sing of the Mormons, the people of the Lord,
Since the time that Joseph prayed for light,
And the way they've been guided by Jesus' holy word,
And saved by the power of his might.

'Tis the song, the sigh of the Mormons,
Hard times, hard times long have pressed us sore;
Many days they have lingered around our cabin door,
But now we've brighter days in store.

Each time that the wicked have tried to overthrow
And to bring the work of God to naught,
The way has been opened for the saints to escape,
A ram in the thicket was caught.

The grasshoppers, crickets, and mobbers all combined
Were powerless to crush our noble cause;
The more we are hated, the more we are maligned,
The more the Church of Jesus grows.

'Tis the song, the sigh of the Mormons,
Hard times, hard times long have pressed us sore;
Many days they have lingered around our cabin door,
But now we've brighter days in store.

By: DavidH [Visitor]

DavidH [Visitor] — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 23:19:30 +0000

It would have been better for all concerned had Mexico simply asked in a polite way, “Exactly how much land do you need for your Manifest Destiny?”, and then provided it at a reasonable price. They probably would have gotten a higher price had they done that instead of standing in the way of progress, waiting to be trounced by the US and then having to negotiate from a position of weakness. Come to think of it, Spain should have done the same thing at the turn of the last century.

By: Adam Greenwood [Visitor]

Adam Greenwood [Visitor] — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 22:09:06 +0000

I’ve no brief for the Mexican War, but one would expect an American to acknowledge the American side of the question, things like (1) the war starting because America believed that Texas’ border was the Rio Grande and Mexico disputed it and (2) Mexican Army detachments firing on American army detachments in the disputed area. The Mexicans and most foreign observers thought the Mexican Army would beat the US. The Mexicans had a well-drilled professional army whereas the US had volunteers, who had been pretty soundly beat in most of the battles of the war of 1812. Mexico had a dictator to whom military confrontation and victory looked useful. Mexico was still mad over the Texan secession. The comparison to the Czechs and the Nazis is Godwin’s Law-esque, and one of the least sane historical analogies from an apparently sane commenter that I’ve ever seen.

By: Mark B. [Visitor]

Mark B. [Visitor] — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 06:34:55 +0000

It seems just a little odd to blame the Mexicans for starting the Mexican War because they refused to receive an American envoy who was sent to mediate the dispute. And I think it preposterous to suggest that the Lord may have willed the imperialist ambitions of James K. Polk.

And, about the Mexicans practically begging for war with the U.S.: That's sort of like the Czechs practially begging to be taken over by Nazi Germany. But, of course, the Mexicans, like the Czechs, were people who lived in a faraway country and of whom we knew nothing.

As Ulysses Grant said in his memoirs, the Mexican War was "one of the most unjust ever waged by a stronger against a weaker nation. It was an instance of a republic following the bad example of European monarchies, in not considering justice in their desire to acquire additional territory."

By: John Mansfield [Member]

John Mansfield [Member] — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 01:06:19 +0000

Happy Pioneer Day to you, too. I almost got to sing a hymn from the '48 book for sacrament meeting yesterday, but a shuffling of assignments led to someone else singing How Great Thou Art. I may get to do the song in August, but the topical timing will be off. The first verse starts out:

Come, go with me, beyond the sea,
Where happiness is true,
Where Joseph's land, blest by God's hand,
Inviting waits for you.

By: Mark N. [Visitor]

Mark N. [Visitor] — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 00:23:17 +0000

... the celebration of when the Mormons fled the United States and fled to Mexican territory."

Now, that's profound. I missed out on the Pioneer Day breakfast event at the Stake Center on Saturday, but I'll be sure to recommend (should anyone ask) that next year's breakfast consist of breakfast burritos instead of the usual eggs, bacon and pancakes.

By: Adam Greenwood [Visitor]

Adam Greenwood [Visitor] — Mon, 24 Jul 2006 22:59:31 +0000

Happy Pioneer Day to all.

We had a good one here, lots of good Pioneer hymns and some rollicking talks.

By: Mark Butler [Visitor]

Mark Butler [Visitor] — Mon, 24 Jul 2006 21:18:25 +0000

Given the striking co-incidence of the Mexican-American dispute heating up within a couple of months following the flight of the Mormons across the Mississippi in the dead of winter, I think it is reasonable to conclude that the Lord did not want Utah to stay part of Mexican territory.

Whatever the Lord wanted, the Mexicans practically begged for the Mexican-American war, refusing to receive the American envoy sent to resolve the dispute peacefully. They lost so severely that all of Mexico might have been annexed to the United States.

By: queuno [Visitor]

queuno [Visitor] — Mon, 24 Jul 2006 20:41:08 +0000

While I disavow many of the pioneer focus (despite my actual pioneer heritage), I think that there is a place for it in sacrament meetings, even in Miami. At a certain level, we are the heirs of their sacrifice.

To ignore Pioneer Day is like saying, "I'm only a third-generation American immigrant whose ancestors didn't fight in the revolutionary war, so I'm going to blow off Independence Day."

I say leave the bonnets in the closet, but find ways to localize it. We had a talk yesterday where the guy's ancestry only can be traced to about 1901, among members of the Church in our own state (and not past that). My wife's family jokingly celebrated their own Pioneer Day as the date they arrived in SLC from the midwest in the 1970s.

Although, I do think it's odd that we celebrate July 24 more than April 6. April 6 only gets a mention if it falls on conference weekend.

By: queuno [Visitor]

queuno [Visitor] — Mon, 24 Jul 2006 20:36:15 +0000

My friend is an acting bishop in his ward (he’s the 1st counselor, but the bishop has moved, but SLC has been slow to approve the new bishop, who is not my friend). Anyway, he mentioned today that he had completely forgotten about Pioneer Day and they had a “normal” sacrament meeting yesterday (he was born in Utah but has lived here in TGSOT for 10 years). He figures that he’ll hear about it from someone next week about how he ignored Pioneer Day.