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	<title>Comments on: Friday Forum:  women should remain silent in church</title>
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		<title>By: Heather</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/friday-forum-women-should-remain-silent-in-church/comment-page-1/#comment-38587</link>
		<dc:creator>Heather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:17:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Here&#039;s another perspective to consider: http://www.ntrf.org/articles/article_detail.php?PRKey=16</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s another perspective to consider: <a href="http://www.ntrf.org/articles/article_detail.php?PRKey=16" rel="nofollow">http://www.ntrf.org/articles/article_detail.php?PRKey=16</a></p>
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		<title>By: Seanette</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/friday-forum-women-should-remain-silent-in-church/comment-page-1/#comment-38054</link>
		<dc:creator>Seanette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:42:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=2660#comment-38054</guid>
		<description>The Bible was not compiled until several centuries after John wrote that (the earliest attempt at establishing a canon is in the mid-second century, it took quite a while to arrive at a canonical list after that, and there is still not universal agreement on the subject). John himself wrote additional Scripture after that (such as the Gospel of John and his epistles), so wouldn&#039;t he have violated his own command by doing so?

The book of Revelation (among others) was strongly disputed, even by Martin Luther, who wanted to leave out about five books of the current Protestant canon, including Revelation (which would, in fact, constitute &quot;taking away&quot; from Scripture, no?). Incidentally, which Bible canon is the &quot;inerrant&quot; &quot;infallible&quot; one, Protestant, Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, Syriac, etc.?

See Deuteronomy 4:2. By your apparent logic, we need to discard everything after Deuteronomy, since that verse gives the exact same warning: &quot;Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.&quot;

Also, please note Rev. 1:3,11, which makes clear that that warning applies to that specific writing. I also question how one goes about defending the claim that God Himself may not add to His Word as He sees fit by way of prophets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Bible was not compiled until several centuries after John wrote that (the earliest attempt at establishing a canon is in the mid-second century, it took quite a while to arrive at a canonical list after that, and there is still not universal agreement on the subject). John himself wrote additional Scripture after that (such as the Gospel of John and his epistles), so wouldn&#8217;t he have violated his own command by doing so?</p>
<p>The book of Revelation (among others) was strongly disputed, even by Martin Luther, who wanted to leave out about five books of the current Protestant canon, including Revelation (which would, in fact, constitute &#8220;taking away&#8221; from Scripture, no?). Incidentally, which Bible canon is the &#8220;inerrant&#8221; &#8220;infallible&#8221; one, Protestant, Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, Syriac, etc.?</p>
<p>See <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/deut/4/2#2" title="LDS Scriptures Internet Edition: Deuteronomy 4:2">Deuteronomy 4:2</a>. By your apparent logic, we need to discard everything after Deuteronomy, since that verse gives the exact same warning: &#8220;Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.&#8221;</p>
<p>Also, please note <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/rev/1/3%2C11#3" title="LDS Scriptures Internet Edition: Rev. 1:3,11">Rev. 1:3,11</a>, which makes clear that that warning applies to that specific writing. I also question how one goes about defending the claim that God Himself may not add to His Word as He sees fit by way of prophets.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe G</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/friday-forum-women-should-remain-silent-in-church/comment-page-1/#comment-38044</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 01:06:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=2660#comment-38044</guid>
		<description>I beleive the last verse of the last chapter of Revelation covers what will happen to those who add to or take away from the words of the bible.  In other words, People and twist and distort the bible to mean whatever they want it to mean.  Be careful.  You WILL have to answer for it.  Paul was anointed with the holy spirit, and as such the holy spirit was speaking through him.  We are to follow the word, or suffer the consequences in the end.  Disagree with me all you wnat, but on the day of judgement, do you think the Lord will give you your chance to tell him he is wrong?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I beleive the last verse of the last chapter of Revelation covers what will happen to those who add to or take away from the words of the bible.  In other words, People and twist and distort the bible to mean whatever they want it to mean.  Be careful.  You WILL have to answer for it.  Paul was anointed with the holy spirit, and as such the holy spirit was speaking through him.  We are to follow the word, or suffer the consequences in the end.  Disagree with me all you wnat, but on the day of judgement, do you think the Lord will give you your chance to tell him he is wrong?</p>
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		<title>By: Bookslinger</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/friday-forum-women-should-remain-silent-in-church/comment-page-1/#comment-37797</link>
		<dc:creator>Bookslinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:32:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=2660#comment-37797</guid>
		<description>Very few Christian churches today follow this passage.  So it makes a cute retort when someone accuses the LDS of not believing in or not following the Bible. &quot;Does _your_ church follow 1 Corinthians 14: 33-35 ?  Well then, you don&#039;t believe the Bible 100% either.&quot;

It would also have been a good answer when some reporter asked Mitt Romney during the last primary if there were any parts of the Bible that he (or his church) didn&#039;t believe in.  &quot;Yeah, 1 Corinthians 14: 33-35. We don&#039;t believe that. We have women speak and teach in church.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very few Christian churches today follow this passage.  So it makes a cute retort when someone accuses the LDS of not believing in or not following the Bible. &#8220;Does _your_ church follow <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_cor/14/33-35#33" title="LDS Scriptures Internet Edition: 1 Corinthians 14: 33&ndash;35">1 Corinthians 14: 33&ndash;35</a> ?  Well then, you don&#8217;t believe the Bible 100% either.&#8221;</p>
<p>It would also have been a good answer when some reporter asked Mitt Romney during the last primary if there were any parts of the Bible that he (or his church) didn&#8217;t believe in.  &#8220;Yeah, <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_cor/14/33-35#33" title="LDS Scriptures Internet Edition: 1 Corinthians 14: 33&ndash;35">1 Corinthians 14: 33&ndash;35</a>. We don&#8217;t believe that. We have women speak and teach in church.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Pratt</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/friday-forum-women-should-remain-silent-in-church/comment-page-1/#comment-37785</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Pratt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 02:54:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=2660#comment-37785</guid>
		<description>Keller, that is a pretty cool idea!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keller, that is a pretty cool idea!</p>
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		<title>By: Keller</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/friday-forum-women-should-remain-silent-in-church/comment-page-1/#comment-37783</link>
		<dc:creator>Keller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 21:54:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=2660#comment-37783</guid>
		<description>Here is a piece I wrote about the material in 1 Timothy that I think puts 1 Corinthians in perspective like Mike does. However I did my blog (linked to by my name) about the apostasy and why bishops took over leadership over the church from apostles before I encountered Mike&#039;s take.

&lt;blockquote&gt;This classification is between traveling and stationary authorities (p. 19-21), especially drawing from the Didache(and the analysis done by influential scholar Adolf von Harnack), a document contemporary with some of the later New Testament writings. (I lean towards the scholarly consensus that date the final version of letters to Timothy and Titus very much after Paul’s death, even though that puts me somewhat in unorthodox territory.) ...

A relatively recent scholar, David Horrell [12], noted that nobody since Harnack has tried to explain the transition in any detail. He utilized a household development model for the rise of bishops that Nibley did not. Basically this model has bishops arising out of the family patriarchs that often hosted church services. Early Christians were frequently cast out of synagogues, and initially having no dedicated buildings of their own, were forced to meet in the homes of the more wealthy patrons. These wealthy patriarchs would naturally be called to positions of responsibility and leadership in the local church. The qualifications for bishops and deacons in Timothy and Titus resemble “household codes” or societal rules for running a respectable household in a community.

These codes tended to further elevate the position of the hosting male leader in comparison to his wife, children, servants, slaves, and guests. One sees the hint of a class warfare problem that could emerge between wealthy local leaders and the poor traveling leaders that depended upon (and could be accused of abusing in the Didache) a host’s generosity. Horrell’s model also has the benefit of explaining the decline in prominence of women in the early church. Women like Junia and Priscilla were mentioned in the same breath as evangelizing apostles, but the pastoral letters effectively silenced such activity. You heard it here first, but the a priori rejection of female prophetic ability seems to have been an early sign of the apostasy.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a piece I wrote about the material in 1 Timothy that I think puts 1 Corinthians in perspective like Mike does. However I did my blog (linked to by my name) about the apostasy and why bishops took over leadership over the church from apostles before I encountered Mike&#8217;s take.</p>
<blockquote><p>This classification is between traveling and stationary authorities (p. 19-21), especially drawing from the Didache(and the analysis done by influential scholar Adolf von Harnack), a document contemporary with some of the later New Testament writings. (I lean towards the scholarly consensus that date the final version of letters to Timothy and Titus very much after Paul’s death, even though that puts me somewhat in unorthodox territory.) &#8230;</p>
<p>A relatively recent scholar, David Horrell [12], noted that nobody since Harnack has tried to explain the transition in any detail. He utilized a household development model for the rise of bishops that Nibley did not. Basically this model has bishops arising out of the family patriarchs that often hosted church services. Early Christians were frequently cast out of synagogues, and initially having no dedicated buildings of their own, were forced to meet in the homes of the more wealthy patrons. These wealthy patriarchs would naturally be called to positions of responsibility and leadership in the local church. The qualifications for bishops and deacons in Timothy and Titus resemble “household codes” or societal rules for running a respectable household in a community.</p>
<p>These codes tended to further elevate the position of the hosting male leader in comparison to his wife, children, servants, slaves, and guests. One sees the hint of a class warfare problem that could emerge between wealthy local leaders and the poor traveling leaders that depended upon (and could be accused of abusing in the Didache) a host’s generosity. Horrell’s model also has the benefit of explaining the decline in prominence of women in the early church. Women like Junia and Priscilla were mentioned in the same breath as evangelizing apostles, but the pastoral letters effectively silenced such activity. You heard it here first, but the a priori rejection of female prophetic ability seems to have been an early sign of the apostasy.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Zen</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/friday-forum-women-should-remain-silent-in-church/comment-page-1/#comment-37780</link>
		<dc:creator>Zen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 18:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=2660#comment-37780</guid>
		<description>We need to keep in mind, the manner of prophecying among the Greeks, and especially Greek women. It involved a lot of excited incoherent babbling not unlike certain Pentacostal denominations. Hence, the word Paul used, denoted meaningless noise, not literal communication.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We need to keep in mind, the manner of prophecying among the Greeks, and especially Greek women. It involved a lot of excited incoherent babbling not unlike certain Pentacostal denominations. Hence, the word Paul used, denoted meaningless noise, not literal communication.</p>
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		<title>By: annegb</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/friday-forum-women-should-remain-silent-in-church/comment-page-1/#comment-37779</link>
		<dc:creator>annegb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 17:01:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=2660#comment-37779</guid>
		<description>There is nothing Bill would like better than for me to keep my mouth shut.  I think he would praise the Lord in song.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is nothing Bill would like better than for me to keep my mouth shut.  I think he would praise the Lord in song.</p>
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		<title>By: Hans Hansen</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/friday-forum-women-should-remain-silent-in-church/comment-page-1/#comment-37773</link>
		<dc:creator>Hans Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 23:27:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=2660#comment-37773</guid>
		<description>&quot;As an aside, there will be a 30 minute period when there will be no women in heaven: D&amp;C 88: 95.&quot;

It&#039;s going to be very quiet during that 30 minutes!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As an aside, there will be a 30 minute period when there will be no women in heaven: <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/88/95#95" title="LDS Scriptures Internet Edition: D&amp;C 88: 95">D&amp;C 88: 95</a>.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s going to be very quiet during that 30 minutes!</p>
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		<title>By: JrL</title>
		<link>http://www.millennialstar.org/friday-forum-women-should-remain-silent-in-church/comment-page-1/#comment-37772</link>
		<dc:creator>JrL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:20:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.millennialstar.org/?p=2660#comment-37772</guid>
		<description>Interesting to see this posting the morning after my wife attended a stake welfare committee meeting where the stake presidency showed a video of Elder Ballard discussing the need for women to more actively participate in councils where they serve and the high councilors were assigned to visit ward councils to see if the women are really speaking up and being heard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting to see this posting the morning after my wife attended a stake welfare committee meeting where the stake presidency showed a video of Elder Ballard discussing the need for women to more actively participate in councils where they serve and the high councilors were assigned to visit ward councils to see if the women are really speaking up and being heard.</p>
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