Comments on: Friday Forum: Doctrine and Covenants 132:4-6 “If Ye Abide Not That Covenant, Then Are Ye Damned”

By: Mark D.

Mark D. — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 06:52:13 +0000

LDS Anarchist, the Latin form of “condemned” (condemnabitur) appears in the Vulgate instead of “damned” in Mark 16:16.

So in this case, the Spanish text appears to be faithful to a *much* earlier translation, which makes sense since it was probably translated by Spanish Catholics using the Vulgate as a reference, considering the Vulgate was the dominant, quasi-official Catholic translation until relatively recently, and Spanish is a Latinate language.

So the really interesting question isn’t how the Spanish translation got to be that way, but rather why the KJV or earlier English translators decided to use the term “damned” instead of “condemned” in the first place. Douay Rheims, a Catholic English translation, has “condemned”.

It ought to be pretty obvious either way that (eternal) salvation and (eternal) condemnation are mutually exclusive states in the context of Mark 16:16, and its parallels in the Book of Mormon.

By: Damnation « LDS Anarchy

Damnation « LDS Anarchy — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 04:41:52 +0000

[...] I recently (Sept. 17) had the opportunity to participate in a discussion on The Millennial Star blog. The topic was on the meaning of the word “damned” in [...]

By: JA Benson

JA Benson — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 02:40:56 +0000

Anne Thank you for stopping by to comment. You are one of my favorite people. I am sorry you go to church (or did go) with shaming people. I would hope that as a community we are moving away from that method of persuading others in regards to Christian service and behavior.

Steve EM- you are right about the Atonement. Thanks for reminding us. I do not think the polygamy sections of the Doctrine and Covenants 132 are not flushed as much as put on hiatus; for those who choose that arrangement in the next life.

By: Steve EM

Steve EM — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 00:21:59 +0000

Bookslinger: Hope you are well too. I’m kind of the mind set that once we discard part of a section of scripture, best to flush the whole thing and forget about it. To ditto Annegb, to make silly lists about all the stuff that will damn us is, in the end, a rejection of Christ’s atonement, as our works don’t save us, Jesus does.

I’ve had a busy summer w/o much time for blogging. My one boy (not counting my BYU love child) has been back a good while now but is still doing his undergrad. To be blunt, he had a negative mission experience under a poor mentor Nazi MP and doesn’t like to talk about it. That said, he remains active, a rarity for twenty-something LDS these days.

By: annegb

annegb — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:57:28 +0000

Loved the cartoon as well. I actually hear “you’ll be damned” a lot in my ward. Or I used to, when I used to attend all the meetings. I would sit there in Relief Society and hear the teacher blithely spouting “You will be damned if you don’t do your genealogy…food storage…scripture reading…” Geez, why don’t we just give up already.

By: JA Benson

JA Benson — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 03:47:02 +0000

Thank you Bookslinger for stopping by to comment and to appreciate the effort I put into matching a cartoon with a scripture.

By: Bookslinger

Bookslinger — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 01:11:00 +0000

JAB: I love some of Larson’s cartoons.

By: Bookslinger

Bookslinger — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 01:10:14 +0000

Steve EM: good to see you back. It’s been a while. How many of your boys are back from their missions? How were their experiences? Last we chatted, you were just sending one or two off.

By the way, section 132 is not entirely about polygamy. Part is about polygamy, part is about eternal marriage, and part is about both.

By: JA Benson

JA Benson — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 23:56:32 +0000

Last Lemming-fair enough. You are right; there will be choice in the Hereafter as on earth. Those of us who have lost children like to think they are pure spirits who were too good for this life. I am sure we romanticize the condition.

By: Last Lemming

Last Lemming — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 23:51:02 +0000

JA Benson,

I call your attention to the bolded phrase in your JFS quote:

and all the blessings will be theirs through their obedience, the same as if they had lived to maturity…

This is not a throwaway phrase. Earlier in the same section he states: “Little children who die before they reach the years of accountability will automatically inherit the celestial kingdom, but not the exaltation in that kingdom until they have complied with all the requirements of exaltation.” I maintain that if free agency means any thing, some (and perhaps many) of those children will choose not to comply with all the requirements.