Comments on: FLDS, Texas and Double Standards http://www.millennialstar.org/flds-texas-and-double-standards/ Wed, 08 Feb 2012 20:25:59 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Geoff B http://www.millennialstar.org/flds-texas-and-double-standards/comment-page-1/#comment-30331 Geoff B Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:26:11 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/04/11/flds-texas-and-double-standards/#comment-30331 I heard Joseph Smith is responsible for our current economic problems too. Randall, this blog is for believing members of the Church. You may want to take such comments elsewhere. Please see our comments policy. I heard Joseph Smith is responsible for our current economic problems too.

Randall, this blog is for believing members of the Church. You may want to take such comments elsewhere. Please see our comments policy.

]]> By: Clark Goble http://www.millennialstar.org/flds-texas-and-double-standards/comment-page-1/#comment-30330 Clark Goble Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:03:47 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/04/11/flds-texas-and-double-standards/#comment-30330 Randall that's just ridiculous. You can claim that but it isn't true. The fact is at the time of Joseph Smith marriage was viewed differently than today. (And yes that's a fact - modern marriage is the result of a fairly significant rethinking near the turn of the 20th century.) To say that women are treated as mere chattle is ridiculous especially given that the place in the US where women were <i>first</i> given the vote was Utah in the 19th century. Long before the rest of the country caught up. Likewise Utah had some of the most liberal divorce laws at the time. It was very easy for women to leave their husbands or polygamy entirely if they wished to in the 19th century. (See <a href="http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/information-on-sectarian-polygamy/" rel="nofollow">this BCC thread</a> for instance) It's fine if you believe those things. Clearly you don't have historical facts or reasoning for what you are saying. Now I suspect everyone reading this blog is glad there isn't polygamy in our culture. But to say that Joseph Smith introduced what you claim is simply demonstrably false. Randall that’s just ridiculous. You can claim that but it isn’t true. The fact is at the time of Joseph Smith marriage was viewed differently than today. (And yes that’s a fact – modern marriage is the result of a fairly significant rethinking near the turn of the 20th century.)

To say that women are treated as mere chattle is ridiculous especially given that the place in the US where women were first given the vote was Utah in the 19th century. Long before the rest of the country caught up. Likewise Utah had some of the most liberal divorce laws at the time. It was very easy for women to leave their husbands or polygamy entirely if they wished to in the 19th century. (See this BCC thread for instance)

It’s fine if you believe those things. Clearly you don’t have historical facts or reasoning for what you are saying.

Now I suspect everyone reading this blog is glad there isn’t polygamy in our culture. But to say that Joseph Smith introduced what you claim is simply demonstrably false.

]]> By: Randall http://www.millennialstar.org/flds-texas-and-double-standards/comment-page-1/#comment-30329 Randall Tue, 15 Apr 2008 03:47:30 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/04/11/flds-texas-and-double-standards/#comment-30329 Furthermore, how anyone can read this language: "...if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse aanother, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else. 62 And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified..." ...and NOT see how it designates young women as chattel, and justifies, in its practice, child rape, is simply hiding behind their own mental-burqa. Furthermore, how anyone can read this language:

“…if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse aanother, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.
62 And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified…”

…and NOT see how it designates young women as chattel, and justifies, in its practice, child rape, is simply hiding behind their own mental-burqa.

]]> By: Randall http://www.millennialstar.org/flds-texas-and-double-standards/comment-page-1/#comment-30328 Randall Tue, 15 Apr 2008 03:37:26 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/04/11/flds-texas-and-double-standards/#comment-30328 The condition and practice of polygamy correlates strongly to underage marriage, sexual exploitation, pedophilia, and other socially (and morally) repugnant outcomes. Not including Joseph Smith's own well-documented marriages to under age women as indicative of this correlation would be turning a blind eye, to say the least. And to watch in living color the natural progression of polygamy as practiced by the FLDS and not draw the connection to Joseph's doctrine is willful ignorance. The condition and practice of polygamy correlates strongly to underage marriage, sexual exploitation, pedophilia, and other socially (and morally) repugnant outcomes.

Not including Joseph Smith’s own well-documented marriages to under age women as indicative of this correlation would be turning a blind eye, to say the least.

And to watch in living color the natural progression of polygamy as practiced by the FLDS and not draw the connection to Joseph’s doctrine is willful ignorance.

]]> By: John Mansfield http://www.millennialstar.org/flds-texas-and-double-standards/comment-page-1/#comment-30327 John Mansfield Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:04:06 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/04/11/flds-texas-and-double-standards/#comment-30327 Clark, I agree with you on the comparison of Romney and Obama. For months we read worries about a presidential candidate whose great-grandparents were polygamists and whose church is considered racist by some, but those kinds of things just can't be mentioned about Obama. I first heard about the Rev. Wright last summer, yet it wasn't until very recently that any standard newspaper would touch that issue. Few people are aware yet how communist Obama's background is, and the <i>New York Times</i> and CNN sure aren't going to tell them. The migration-slavery thing, though, gets a fair bit of attention in the <i>Washington Post.</i> The D.C. area has a particular concentration of the upscale immigrants who are capable of this abuse. Clark, I agree with you on the comparison of Romney and Obama. For months we read worries about a presidential candidate whose great-grandparents were polygamists and whose church is considered racist by some, but those kinds of things just can’t be mentioned about Obama. I first heard about the Rev. Wright last summer, yet it wasn’t until very recently that any standard newspaper would touch that issue. Few people are aware yet how communist Obama’s background is, and the New York Times and CNN sure aren’t going to tell them.

The migration-slavery thing, though, gets a fair bit of attention in the Washington Post. The D.C. area has a particular concentration of the upscale immigrants who are capable of this abuse.

]]> By: Clark Goble http://www.millennialstar.org/flds-texas-and-double-standards/comment-page-1/#comment-30326 Clark Goble Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:00:17 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/04/11/flds-texas-and-double-standards/#comment-30326 Just to be clear, I hope you are <i>not</i> suggesting that D&C 132 has anything to do with underage marriage. (Because obviously it does not) Just to be clear, I hope you are not suggesting that D&C 132 has anything to do with underage marriage. (Because obviously it does not)

]]> By: Randall http://www.millennialstar.org/flds-texas-and-double-standards/comment-page-1/#comment-30325 Randall Mon, 14 Apr 2008 03:26:40 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/04/11/flds-texas-and-double-standards/#comment-30325 What Joseph Smith and Brigham Young hath wrought... I think many Americans are amazed that in this day and age a rather large community can live in such a closed and isolated way and institutionalize pedophilia. The Mormon Church has long since denounced the practice, but it's clear that many are accepting of it and take the words of D&C 132 to heart. It is doctrine, after all. What Joseph Smith and Brigham Young hath wrought…

I think many Americans are amazed that in this day and age a rather large community can live in such a closed and isolated way and institutionalize pedophilia.

The Mormon Church has long since denounced the practice, but it’s clear that many are accepting of it and take the words of D&C 132 to heart. It is doctrine, after all.

]]> By: aloysiusmiller http://www.millennialstar.org/flds-texas-and-double-standards/comment-page-1/#comment-30324 aloysiusmiller Mon, 14 Apr 2008 00:42:43 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/04/11/flds-texas-and-double-standards/#comment-30324 BTW, I meant to say that our unwillingness to enforce our cultural expectations on other races is an example of our racism of diminished expectations. We expect more of whites because (you know well, anyway)..... BTW, I meant to say that our unwillingness to enforce our cultural expectations on other races is an example of our racism of diminished expectations. We expect more of whites because (you know well, anyway)…..

]]> By: aloysiusmiller http://www.millennialstar.org/flds-texas-and-double-standards/comment-page-1/#comment-30323 aloysiusmiller Sun, 13 Apr 2008 22:41:17 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/04/11/flds-texas-and-double-standards/#comment-30323 In our PC world, whatever blacks, arabs, asians and other races do is just culture and it is okay. We only enforce cultural norms on other whites. I think that the FLDS are diabolically crazy and evil and I would like to see them stop it. I did some web searching on the story and find out that HBO's Big Love series is causing non-religious whites to think about polygamy. I even saw posts from women that seemed to romanticize it. I am not embarassed about our LDS history on this score (no more than I would be about our Old Testament history) but it is clear to me that that we have grown beyond this and I am grateful for that. In our PC world, whatever blacks, arabs, asians and other races do is just culture and it is okay. We only enforce cultural norms on other whites.

I think that the FLDS are diabolically crazy and evil and I would like to see them stop it. I did some web searching on the story and find out that HBO’s Big Love series is causing non-religious whites to think about polygamy. I even saw posts from women that seemed to romanticize it.

I am not embarassed about our LDS history on this score (no more than I would be about our Old Testament history) but it is clear to me that that we have grown beyond this and I am grateful for that.

]]> By: mmiles http://www.millennialstar.org/flds-texas-and-double-standards/comment-page-1/#comment-30320 mmiles Sat, 12 Apr 2008 16:27:16 +0000 http://www.millennialstar.org/2008/04/11/flds-texas-and-double-standards/#comment-30320 It is interesting to note too that even pro-polygamous groups in the US are so adamantly against Mormons. http://www.pro-polygamy.com/articles.php?news=0059 It is interesting to note too that even pro-polygamous groups in the US are so adamantly against Mormons.

http://www.pro-polygamy.com/articles.php?news=0059

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