Has been very, very weak so far. Despite still being on of the best shows on TV.
Look – it started off strong. I still think the parallels to the Iraq situation many saw in the first few episodes were strained, to say the least. However, I have to admit that the first few episodes kept me on the edge of my seat. They were tense and pretty darned epic too.
But on reflection, they don’t hold up very well. And after the last (extremely weak) episode, I’m wondering if the creators are even thinking about the future of the show, or have succumbed to the idea of their brave topicality.
Here’s my main problems with the season so far:
1. Suicide bombers make no sense. No, not because of the supposed parallels with Iraq. Because Cylons can’t die, but humans can. In this series, there are only so many humans, yet Cylons can download into new bodies at the drop of a hat. Why on earth would the humans resort to suicide bombings that, in the end, only kill off other humans?
Basically, the humans will lose by attrition, since the Cylons don’t have a war weary voter base back on the home planet demanding immediate withdrawal. Instead, the Cylons were more likely to nuke the place than leave. Suicide bombings have no real affect on the war, and does only makes the Cylons job easier.
2. The secret council of Six: While I enjoyed the twist that the council was authorized by the President, rather than being a demented vigilante group – didn’t Tyrol or anyone else on the committee realize that Tyrol had somewhat recently killed a human to save a Cylon’s life? Why was he on the council, rather than being judged by it?
3. The last episode: Weak, weak, weak. There is no guarantee their plan will actually work (what if the Cylons just decide to blow up the infected Resurrection ship out of range of other Resurrection ships?), yet everyone is convinced it will work at 100% efficiency. Adama seems willing to sacrafice the entire human race to prove how morally superior he is. Also – Adama won’t investigate? It was obvious to Roslin that Helo was responsible – it shouldn’t be hard for the rest of the crew to figure out as well. If Helo isn’t targeted for some retribution, than the writer’s aren’t doing their job.
I still think it’s one of the best shows on TV, but the writers have been seriously slipshod on thinking things through this season.
Really? I thought the first four episodes were among the best BSG has done. On par with season 1. Last week’s was a bit weak, but that’s partially because I’m not sure where they are going.
As to your points.
1. the suicide bombers were primarily targeting other humans. The point was to get the people who were collaborating. BTW – I thought the parallels were more to France in the 1940’s or Spain in 1812 than Iraq. I think part of the thinking was that everything was a lost cause. It was inherently irrational and I think this was communicated. Any resistance they would do was suicidal. And that included the Galactica rescue.
Ultimately they knew they had lost and wanted to go on their own terms. They’d never work with the Cylons. I think that was why Roslin was so upset at Helo’s comments about the Cylons working with the humans. I think it a true aspect of human nature.
2. I don’t quite see the problem here. What are you referring to? And how does it relate to punishing collaborators?
3. While I didn’t like the reasoning (after all can’t they do something like send some humans with the plague back to Caprica?) it still was better than the three weak episodes towards the end of season 2. I think Adama wouldn’t investigate because he largely agreed with Helo. Adama’s character has changed a great deal. He and Roslin have largely switched roles from season 1.
I’ll give the plague a bit of a break since I suspect we’ll see it again in the future.
Clark –
I felt the first four episodes were great, edge of the seat stuff. But on refelction, the small points began to bug me.
here:
#1: That was my point. They were targeting other humans, though they did try to get some Cylons at least once. Regardless of how much you hate the collaborators, when there are only so many humans left, suicide bombings make no sense. In essence, they were comitting racial suicide, not just punishing the collaborators.
#2:Tyrol was on the council of Six. He also has killed a human to protect a Cylon. Why then is he not up for charges by the council, and why is he so willing to kill those who have in essence, done what he did (kill humans to protect Cylons)?
#3: Well, Adama won’t go after Helo because he agrees with him, that’s obvious. What is also obvious is that it won’t take a genius for the other pilots to figure out Helo was responsible. Plus, I don’t get why Adama has been, time after time, willing to sacrafice the entire human race to prove his moral superiority. He’s a bit too obviously the voice of the show’s creators in all this, but to me he sounds like a self-righteous fanatic. Pragmatism needs to count for something.
Just found some discussion of this on The Corner that I more or less agree with:
here:
The president’s briefing with Helo present where they’re talking about genociding his wife’s race. Duh? And everyone was surprised he wigged out ?
Secondly, the Cylons had one bayship infected with the virus and they managed to contain it. What makes them think they can’t again? This would not have whiped out the entire Cylon race as was dramatized. Certainly, it would have been a huge loss of several bayships and a res ship, but not genocide… unless we’re to believe they’re down to just one res ship left and it’s defense fleet AND they’re all in range of this attack? What about the Cylon homeworld and the 12 colonies?
Third, why execute ALL of the prisoners to make your attack? One would have done the job.
Fourth, why were the prisoners all together in the same room. First rule of interrogation, seperate them from one another.
here:
if they’re so concerned about genocide, can’t the humans still hold this disease over the heads of the Cylons? They could tell them that if the Cylons ever come near humanity again, they’ll infect the whole cylon race with this disease. Then, at least if the Cylons keep coming they’ve asked for it.
Other discussions here and here.
Ivan, that’s why I thought it quite believable. I think human beings have a tendancy to postal when there is no hope. (Indeed some evolutionary psychologists think that’s where that “go postal” action comes from) The problem is, given the Cylon resurrection, there was no way to punish the Cylons beyond thwarting their immediate plans. i.e. attack the collaborators.
I’ll grant you the, “why kill all the Cylons.” One might say do it for redundancy.
But the keeping them together didn’t make much sense – although in fairness they were planning on killing them all, so they may just not have cared.
Is M*’s new strategy to become a science fiction blog?
Come on, I thought everyone knew the LDS connection with Battlestar Galactica. Plus it offers rather interesting ethical dilemmas well beyond what one typically finds on TV.
Of course it raises the interesting point. What if Moroni could have wiped out all the Lamanites. Should he have?
I’d add that the old Glen Larson version of BSG had obvious overtones to the Jaredites and Nephites. The small rag tag fleet. I always wondered if they were going to find old earth, their birthplace (with the overtones of the Jaredite/Nephite return to Eden). Of course the old series had tons of LDS references and overtones. The new one doesn’t and took the more Egyptian theme to a more Greek theme. Still I halfway wonder if we’re going to see more LDS overtones pop up with the “God” of the Cylons and some devil character.
So does this mean you don’t want a post on Heros?
Here’s another thing someone else brought up at a blog:
Why did the Colonials go onto the Cylon Base Ship with minimal protection and no breathing apparatus?
Ah, well. I was trying to be provocative about the show, but apparently only Clark took me up on it.
To others: It’s still a great show, despite the many small problems that have been appearing as of late. The creators earned my trust the last two seasons, so I’m willing to give them some slack for now. Perhaps now that their side “won” in the recent elections, they’ll calm down a bit (Moore makes no bones about his liberal leanings, though he claims the show has actually made him more sympathetic to Bush – though he also expressed surprise that his show is popular among conservatives. He had assumed he had a mostly liberal audience).
Just so you know that more than just Clark is interested….
I agree that letting Helo off the hook is implausible. The evening after the last episode, my wife and I watched a DVD of the season 2 episode in which Helo blocked the hallway trying to prevent the forced termination of Sharon’s pregnancy. He got away with that one too. In light of his stance there, why Helo was even trusted with knowledge of the eradication plan is a mystery to me.
And bring on the Heros post.
Yeah, the landing on the Cylon ship wasn’t well thought out – although I suspect that was primarily budgetary.
I was concerned that BSG might have jumped the shark after the 2nd season cliffhanger. I had real doubts that the show could recover, but so far, I have been pleasantly surprised.
Most of the BSG complaints for this season that I’ve read have been based upon the perceived political statements that the show’s creators might be trying to make – in particular, about Iraq. But honestly, the apparent analogy between New Caprica and Iraq, the resistance, the suicide bombers, it doesn’t bother me. In fact, I think they handled it fairly well, working contemporary issues into a fictional storyline.
I was afraid that the third season of the show would display a huge change in the nature of BSG – that of a continuing occupation and resistance on the planet. It would be completely different from the idea of a fleet simultaneously searching for Earth and battling/evading the Cylons. But, they did a good job of getting them off the planet and back into space, and back to the BSG formula.
In fact, they even have Baltar with the Cylons now. My hope, now that the series more closely resembles the peerless original, will be a deeper exploration of Cylon vs. Human, more exploration of deep space, and more “pure” science fiction. Just so long as it doesn’t turn into a soap opera.
There are a lot of plot holes, but I can suspend disbelief for most of them. The biggest problem, I agree, was that the colonials landed on the base ship without any protection. But this is a TV show, not a big-budget movie, so I can let it pass.
We will have to wait an see how much Helo gets away with. I expect that consequences will follow in upcoming episodes.
The point has been made about Tyrol killing a human to protect a Cylon… I assume this refers to when he and helo killed the Pegasus’ chief interrogator just as he was about to rape Sharon? That wouldn’t be a factor in the Council of 6 since, basically, it is old news. Admiral Cain was going to execute both of them, but Adama was insubordinate and rescued them. All of the was (apparently) resolved before the occupation of New Caprica.
Other minor probs I can see include the fact that using the biological weapon was termed “genocide” when in reality, there is no way it could have been… not unless, as has been pointed out, the entire Cylon race abandoned the twelve colonies to conquer New Caprica. But, assuming that – for the sake of dramatic gravitas – it was genocide, the moral debate on Colonial One over the use of biological weapons to commit genocide was pretty weak. Seemed like forced and contrived dialogue for the sake of time rather than being the dramatic highpoint of the show.
I also feel like there is inordinate focus placed on Baltar. I hope that his collaborative relationship with the Cylons can be stabilised quickly, and we can get more of a look at some of the humans, e.g. Starbuck, Tigh, Apollo/Dualla, Helo/Sharon, Tyrol/Cally, Zarek, Gaeta…. A lot of storylines to be developed over the next year or more.
Great… now I’m totally distracted…
Why was Apollo demoted to Major? Is it because he disobeyed Adama and ended up saving the Galactica at the cost of the Pegasus?
Why is Helo Adama’s apparent second-in-command, even though Apollo outranks him, and Gaeta – even Dualla, has more experience in the control center?
Why is Athena put back into a raptor? Seems like her particular Cylon-inspired talents could be used in much greater ways than merely piloting a ship…
Why wasn’t the “genocidal option” developed more, instead of rushed to be put into action? Given more thim, there could have been more interrogation of the prisoners, more exploration of whether it would work… There was not discussion of whether the humans could just hold the encephalitis-gun to the Cylon’s head and force some sort of cease-fire.
I think it was going to be genocide because the entire Cylon resurrection fleet is networked. So if you corrupt the resurrection ships it basically kills everyone.
I’ll lay good odds that the encephalitis plague pops up again in future episodes.
The ressurection fleet is networked, but –
The reason for the ressurection ships is for when the basestars are out of range of the network. There is no guarantee that infecting one ressurection ship will infect others.
As for Tyrol killing a human – it may be “old news” but it indicates that he really doesn’t belong on the council. His presence seemed forced – just so they could have someone who actually knew about the inside source.
Baltar is getting too much attention, but methinks its because something funky is going to happen on the base star, like Lucy Lawless deciding she’s god or something because of what Baltar said.
I think that when the point is tried to be made that the suicide bombings have a parallel to what the terrorists do, that a crucial point is being missed. There is a big difference between strapping a bomb on yourself and getting on a bus or walking into a pizza place, and strapping a bomb on yourself and walking into a building filled with enemy soldiers, or destroying a prime target.
That also applies to my thoughts about them wanting to kill off the entire cylon race in the last episode. It would be different if there were cylon civilians, but there aren’t. They are all basically enemy soldiers with the single mission to destroy humanity, and I would think that the knowledge that they are also looking for earth would make it even more important that they stop them at all costs.
Just my two cents. I’m not having any problems with the way the new season is going, personally. even though I did find the episode “Torn” to be a little weak.
The Cylons thought that infecting one resurrection ship would infect the others. Thus their backing off. There’s no guarantee of course. The Cylons were primarily acting out of fear. But presumably they know their networks and how the record of the brain works. I suspect that’s why Moore picked encephalitis as the disease. He’s not terribly good on the science part of the science fiction. Thus a lot of the odditites in BSG. But it is a disease of the brain. So there’s at least some reason to think it might screw with the recording and downloading of the brains by the Cylons.
It seemed to me that Tyrol was on the council because the President who authorized the Council was a former guerilla fighter back on the 12 colonies who was so effective he was put in permanent prison. He knew he had to get things done before Roslin took over power. He also, we had been told, was a member of the resistance on New Caprica before being put in prison by the Cylons. Since Tyrol was the leader of the resistance it made sense to put him in charge. If anything, Tyrol’s willingness to kill his own wife probably indicated a dedication to justice (in their eyes) rather than emotion. i.e. a good reason to have him in charge.
Note I’m not saying it was a good thing to have Tyrol there and Starbuck was a horrible idea. But I’d simply point to who was President at the time. So I think it makes sense.
Something weird is going to happen. I think this episode only makes sense if Moore has something else up his sleeve we don’t know about.
Clark –
your comments indicate you are confusing Tyrol with Tigh. Similar sounding names, yes. But not the same person.
Tigh executed his wife… not Tyrol. Frankly, I can’t see Tyrol doing that to Cally.. not like Tigh who has always been kind of off his rocker.
On the added urgency to stop the Cylons because they are looking for Earth… As far as the Colonials know, Earth civilization is more advanced than their own, and their arrival at Earth will be like coming home.
In th BSG universe, for that matter, Earth may be more advanced – maybe it is in the future. The series will end with find Earth and all of the Earthlings wiping out the Cylons themselves (using the USS Enterprise and the rest of Starfleet, of course).
I agree that there is more fiction than science in BSG… kind of frustrating.
I still think the parallels to the Iraq situation many saw in the first few episodes were strained, to say the least.
You’re kidding, right? The writers are being as blatantly obvious as possible.
Ivan, whoops. Sorry about that. Brain fart. What can I say, I was tired.
I suspect Tyrol (not Tigh) was included simply because of his place in the resistance. But yeah, his connection to Boomer is a good point. One has to remember his rescue of her from being raped.
BTW – listening to the podcast on the last episode right now. He offers some arguments (thus far) for some of the complaints.
And this last episode “Hero” was even worse than the last one. Bulldog is a potentially comprimised POW (taken at a time when Cylons didn’t take prisoners of war) and he gets no debriefing period. Tigh’s recovery is too quick. Tigh is also on the outs with command, but Starbuck takes the info straight to him, rather than someone actually in the chain of command?
And how did the Cylons know Bulldog would find out Adama shot him down? And aren’t they just lucky the one prisoner of war they kept alive just happened to be associated with Adama?
The writers seem to not be thinking things through. The last two episodes indicate that the writers seem more interested in forcing character arcs and making “points” (not necessarily political ones, though) than in writing character driven drama.
Ugh. Here’s hoping the Cylons get a plan soon, since it now seems they never had one.
What’s interesting about it all though is that they are still making use of the disease. But I agree this was the weakest episode by far this season. Why didn’t they debrief him better? I’m not entirely convinced the Cylons would know Bulldog would attempt to assassinate Adama though, although it clearly was a possibility. There’s a lot mysterious about this episode and I suspect a lot more will be made of this. I have a feeling this isn’t the last we’ve seen of Bulldog.
Of course all my defenses assume that these episodes are setting something further up. If they don’t amount to anything then they definitely are failures.
But I am concerned about a general breakdown of military discipline. Either this is being done intentionally in which case it will come to a head or else Moore has simply lost it and the show has jumped the shark.
I’m willing to exercise a bit of faith on it all.
I think the Cylon plan changed with the Boomer/6 critique. So they changed plans. (Although there is still some mysterious plan with the baby) Now they’ve changed plans again and want to colonize Earth for some unknown and mysterious reason. While I’m willing to suspend frustration in the assumption there is an overarching plan for the show in Lost, I do worry about this with BSG.
I think Moore needs to get the plot developing rather than focusing purely on characters. That’s because the character studies without plot development are ultimately frustrating. If you neglect the whole diversion of New Caprica nothing really plotwise has happened in some time beyond (a) the Cylons getting the baby; (b) the disease (assuming it is a plot development); and (c) the Cylons wanting to go to Earth.
But these just aren’t being handled well. Plotwise things have been moving tremendously slow since around the middle of season 2.
I’m still holding out, since Moore earned my trust with seasons 1 & most of season 2.
But boy, is my trust wearing thin. It seems more and more likely Moore & co. have become enamored with “making points” than with advancing the arc (if there even is an arc anymore).
Please resore my faith!
Tigh’s recovery is too quick. Tigh is also on the outs with command, but Starbuck takes the info straight to him, rather than someone actually in the chain of command?
I agree that this was a weak episode, but not with these particular criticisms. I figured that Starbuck going straight to Tigh simply indicates that her rededication to duty is still a work in progress. She would not be a good candidate to assasinate a rival admiral in her current state. What did bother me, though, is that Tigh went running off to the rescue without bringing Starbuck along as backup.
Also, I don’t think Tigh is all that recovered either. He is still drinking, and Adama’s actions at the end (pouring Tigh a drink) tell me that while he is interested in restoring the friendship, he knows Tigh won’t be fit for duty any time soon. At least I hope not.