Any-sex marriage advocacy kind of reminds me of the Khmer Rouge

Not that anyone is slaughtering millions of humans, but there is a distinct Year Zero sensibility. For instance, passage of Proposition 8 is said to have taken away established civil rights, established for almost six months. Twice as much time has passed since that action, but it is still easy to find people actively mourning that in November 2008 the laws of California descended to what they had been back in the distant stone age of May 14, 2008. Many are disappointed that the LDS Church took the unprecedented step of involving itself in a ballot issue, meaning, I guess, that the work on behalf of Proposition 22 eight years earlier was so long ago it doesn’t count. How could it? That was before history began on May 15, 2008.

There is also the creepy fascination with seeing their opponents die off that the future may be carried forward on the shoulders of a young, properly indoctrinated new people.

[Colby Cosh already used this idea six years ago. I wonder if anyone will mention the Fancher party before the day is through.]

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About John Mansfield

Mansfield in the desertA third-generation southern Nevadan, I have lived in exile most of my life in such places as Los Alamos, Baltimore, Los Angeles, the western suburbs of Detroit, and currently the northern suburbs of Washington, D.C. I work as a fluid dynamics engineer. I was baptized at age twelve in the font of the Las Vegas Nevada Central Stake Center, and on my nineteenth birthday I received the endowment in the St. George Temple. I served as a missionary mostly in the Patagonia of Argentina from 1985 to 1987. My true calling in the Church seems to be working with Cub Scouts, whom I have served in different capacities in four states most years since 1992. (My oldest boy turned eight in 2004.) I also currently teach Sunday School to the thirteen-year-olds. I hold degrees from two universities named for men who died in the 1870s, the Brigham Young University and the Johns Hopkins University. My wife is Elizabeth Pack Mansfield, who comes from New Mexico's north central mountains and studied molecular biology at the same two schools I attended. We have four sons, whose care and admonition, along with care of my aged father, require much of Elizabeth's time. She currently serves the Church as Mia-Maid advisor, ward music chairman, and choir director, and plays violin whenever she can. One day, I would like to make shoes.

30 thoughts on “Any-sex marriage advocacy kind of reminds me of the Khmer Rouge

  1. John M, you get the prize for “most provocative title of a blog post” ever. I’ve tried to take that prize for years now (see “Church of male chauvinists” below), but I bow to the undisputed champion.

    I understand what you’re getting at with the Khmer Rouge comparison, but I predict others may not.

  2. If we can help our young sons and daughters remain in the Church (and other pro-marriage churches do the same) in generations to come, the “No on 8” votes will diminish. With a next to zero reproduction rate, the GLBT community will have the same fate as the Shakers (although for very different reasons).

    The nearer-term challenge is to ensure our schools don’t indoctinate our children with GLBT propaganda and courts don’t force it on us, and to focus public opinion towards doing what’s best for children in future generations and away from the GLBT community’s myopic hedonistic philosophies.

  3. Oh John! You are an unique individual! I also acknowlege you are a god in the realm of quirky titles. From Wikapedia:

    “The idea behind Year Zero is that all culture and traditions within a society must be completely destroyed or discarded and a new revolutionary culture must replace it, starting from scratch. All history of a nation or people before Year Zero is largely irrelevant, as it will (as an ideal) be purged and replaced from the ground up.”

    You are right! There are some on the left that seem to want to do that very thing. Of course, on a much much much less horrific scale.

    I agree Geoff. We here at M* have become media trollops. Down right scandalous.

  4. The human body is not designed for sex with
    1. The Same Gender
    2. Children
    3. Animals
    Gay radicals are attempting to subvert and restructure society.
    If a farmer puts a male pig and female pig in the same pen, we all know what we get. If you put 2 male pigs and 2 female pigs together in the same pen, you get nothing.

  5. This might be a good time to remind commenters that the gospel of Jesus Christ calls on us to love everybody and offer up to them sympathy and support. The goal is to bring all people to Christ. Comments that insult and drive away people are not likely to help them come to Christ.

  6. Geoff:
    It really does no good to isult and drive away people and I really don’t want to. We are in very precarious times. I have a friend who is into this lifestyle and I speak to him plainly and boldly and he is grateful. Considering my 3 points above, society is dealing with people wanting to legalize behavior #1. Who wants to be that #2 and #3 are not that far behind?

  7. The reason why the Khmer Rouge association is unfair is that the former attempted to return to Year Zero by violent revolution, where left-liberals are generally decent enough to work by non-violent (if not always democratic) means.

  8. @Geoff B.

    Well said, Geoff. Thank you for that.

    @Mark D.

    Great point. I think we should not work to demonize the loyal oppostion. We can debate and disagree, but we should shy away from painting them as something that they are not.

  9. Funny post title.

    I like how you avoided the over-used Nazi thing.

    I want to see someone write a post comparing their political opponent to either the Dark Side of the Force or Lord Sauron. That would rule.

  10. Geoff J, the Nazi comparison is so…2008. Y’know, Bush and Hitler, stuff like that. We’re much more advanced here.

    Looks like my prediction in #1 is coming true.

  11. I want to see someone write a post comparing their political opponent to either the Dark Side of the Force

    You haven’t already seen that? It’s a common running joke about the current Pope. Here‘s a recent example (regarding the recent Vatican overtures towards conservative Anglicans).

  12. #13 — Already happened backwards in the last Star Wars, when they put GWB (and Jesus’) comment that “If they’re not with us, they’re against us” in the mouth of (I believe) Palpatine.

  13. Mark D: Yes, bringing about evil by non-violent means is much better than brining about evil by violent means.

  14. Another thing the SSM advocates want us to forget is that for the last 40 years they (the political left, progressives, libertines, etc.) have been telling us that two people who live together and love each other don’t need to get married. “A marriage certificate is just a piece of paper” they said.

  15. May I point out that the Gospel of Jesus Christ does not require us to treat defenders and proponents of sin with sympathy or support. Rather, it requires that we warn them to repent.

    Jesus himself is described as using language such as “hypocrites”, “children of hell”, “blind guides”, “fools” “whitewashed sepulchres”, and “generation of vipers”. This is not a concilatory approach.

    Those who are strugginging against homosexual desires are one thing.
    Those who embrace those desires, and seek the approval and protection of law for homosexual acts are quite something else.

    The harsh and bitter truth is that we cannot legislate away differences in human biology. Homosexual acts will remain 100% infertile whether they are legal or not. We also cannot legislate the social effects of acceptance of homosexual marriage. We also cannot legislate away God’s oath upon his own life that abominations shall not reign, but that those who practice them will be destroyed when in His judgment they are fully ripe.

  16. Bookslinger, regrettably the world spent most of the twentieth century (re-)learning that lesson, and we still have some rather prominent groups for whom it hasn’t sunk in yet. The ability to disagree on “what is evil” is the foundation of civil society.

  17. I am against SSM, but it is interesting to note that all comments by recent prophets and apostles on the subject have concentrated on defending marriage but have also pointed out that Latter-day Saints must show love and sympathy to everyone. I think we as a people are being tested on this issue, and one of the tests is: did you treat people with homosexual tendencies with charity? Sometimes people forget the second part of the test.

  18. Same-sex advocacy may be distasteful, but comparing it to the Khmer Rouge is hardly constructive. These are people who had no voice or rights at all until recent decades. Some of those who posted above might want to reconsider their underlying assumptions about homosexuality: it is not exclusive to humans but is fairly widespread among the animal kingdom, it tends to run in families, and has not as yet been shown to have any post-natal cause whatsoever.

  19. Well, with Chris H.’s #25, someone is at last getting into the spirit of things. It was starting to look as though, like Cyrano, it was left to me to create worthwhile insults of my own nose.

    “What hypocrisy that you, a Mormon, an heir of those who murdered 150 men, women and children at Mount Meadows, would compare anyone to any aspect of the Khmer Rouge!”

    “Year Zero! What about polygamy? Oh, you don’t want to remember anything about that, do you?”

    “Well, if it hadn’t been for support from Kissinger and Nixon, who probably every single Mormon voted for over Humphrey or McGovern, maybe the Khmer Rouge wouldn’t have taken over Cambodia.”

    “Mansfield, Brother Number One may have done astonishingly awful things to his country, but I think of you as merely America’s Brother Number Two.”

  20. John M, ad hominems are not encouraged here, which is why Chris H’s #25 has disappeared into the ether of cyberspace, becoming your #25. Chris H is invited to re-post his comments without ad hominems.

    I will admit, however, a provocative post comparing gays to the Khmer Rouge in any way is likely to stir people up, which is not necessarily a good thing.

  21. Sorry about that, Chris. For myself, the ratio of value to time spent creating a blog comment is usually so low, that recreating one is a very dubious proposition. I liked your comment, and am glad you wrote it.

  22. Geoff, I didn’t compare anything to homosexuals. Most people advocating any-sex marriage are not themselves homosexual, and with a little looking, one can find homsexuals who don’t want to change marriage laws.

    Also, I wish to note Mark D.‘s comment #9. That and Chris H.’s deleted comment made nice points why my comparison may be inapt, aside from being unavoidably provocative. For any still reading, the Year Zero aspect has been on my mind for all of this last year, though I read the Colby Cosh item linked above years ago. Then there was the response to Dallin H. Oaks’ BYU-Idaho speech. The “Who’s oppressing who?” question (or in more Leninist terms “Who? Whom?”) seemed like a legitimate matter to debate. But, oh, how tempting to simply play the trump card against the Mormon who thinks he has experienced anything analogous to a 60’s civil rights advocate!

    It is hard to say any better response could have been expected. Serious, monitory comparisons theoretically could be made between Germany’s National Socialists and some current political maneuver (“In 1935, the Nazis did X, and Hugo Chavez/John Ashcroft/Silvio Berlusconi’s latest action is just too similar to what those dead political gangsters did.”), but in practice, there is just too much baggage to do so. One aspect of Nazi misrule can’t be mentioned without memories of devastation across Europe cascading down. Intimidation of black citizens exercising their civil rights can’t be mentioned without evoking a half millennium of racial injustice. So, I found myself musing over the difficulty of expressing my Year Zero thought effectively, combined with wonder at how, in the style of Elder Oaks’ less thoughtful critics, this provocation could be turned around against me. (“Doesn’t this guy know that it’s the Mormons who are just like the Khmer Rouge?”)

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