Thanks for the reminder. Glenn Beck too, has been spending some time bringing attention to these people who have obviously had their “conscience seared with a hot iron.”
As a very loose comparison, we had a building in our Stake vandalized this past week. The normal with broken windows, 3 or 4 attempted but unsuccessful fires, all of the fire extinguishers emptied in the chapel resulting in an inch of white powder on just about everything. But the kicker was a tithing settlement sign-up sheet ripped from a clerk’s door, which contained the words “God hates you all”. I don’t know if they thought He had delivered that message personally, or if they had read it in a book.
Certainly the history of Christians and Jews are not without blemishes; some glaring. But to deny the genocide of the holocaust as a publicity and sympathy stunt while training children and others to blow themselves up in an effort to kill Jews is truly as you say, outer darkness on earth.
Brian talked about turning the other cheek in a post a few days ago, but in some cases as this one, evil is just evil and there just aren’t that many cheeks to go around. This has Captain Moroni and what needs to be a modernized view of “heaping mounds of earth with timbers” as a message to be heeded.
People may debate that Iran and others are just protecting their interests. But the question is, when was the last time an Israeli, strapped a bomb to his chest and walked on to a crowded Syrian bus?
Hopefully Mr. Duke will like Iran enough to stay put.
Geoff, I have no idea what you meant by that. Care to elaborate for those of us who are slow on the uptake?
Naismith, yeah, my mind sometimes works in funny ways.
What do we know about “outer darkness?” Well, I could find several scriptural references.
Mostly there’s the part about weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. But Alma 40:13 has an excellent description:
And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil — for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house — and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil.
It seems to me that these spirits will spend a lot of time sitting around complaining. God isn’t going to put them someplace where they are constantly prodded with hot pokers. They will be spirits who look like us but they will be miserable. They will have all kinds of evil conspiracy theories to justify their own evil. They will hate the people of God and justify killing them and persecuting them. They will especially hate the people of Israel. In short, they will be just like a convention of Holocaust deniers.
Iran’s regime has been a sponsor of evil since it took power in 1979. I’d love to see it overthrown.
I don’t know how you can suggest that Outer Darkness will be filled with idiots. I think that’s a gross underestimate (or is it a misunderestimation) of the folks who will end up in O.D.
Geoff, I thought that only “sons of perdition” went to Outer Darkness. According to D & C 76: 31, 35, these are described as “…all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and auffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power— …Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it…”
So to carry on your analogy, the folks must have once believed strongly in the truth of the holocaust and then denied it.
I don’t get the sense that many of them ever did believe. They might bot be celestial kingdom material, but it ain’t outer darkness, either.
Naismith –
I think you’re taking the analogy too far. No analogy is ever perfect.
Don’t you find it just a little weird, nonetheless, that countries will actually pass laws that make denial of the holocaust a crime?
Shades of Orwellian thoughtcrime.
Mark, while I tend to agree, I think one has to keep in mind the history of these countries in terms of the sort of folks apt to deny the holocaust and what they’ve done in the past. We have plenty of laws they look at as rather uncivilized and thoughtcrimes.
danithew,
Iran’s regime has been a sponsor of evil since it took power in 1979. I’d love to see it overthrown.
You do realize that the revolution of 1979 happened BECAUSE OF our overthrow of a democratically elected Iranian government back in the 50s. Look up Operation Ajax. If we play around with fire too often, we tend to get burned.
We have plenty of laws they look at as rather uncivilized and thoughtcrimes.
Any particular examples come to mind? I’m not sure what you could be referring to.
Geoff,
Thanks for the reminder. Glenn Beck too, has been spending some time bringing attention to these people who have obviously had their “conscience seared with a hot iron.”
As a very loose comparison, we had a building in our Stake vandalized this past week. The normal with broken windows, 3 or 4 attempted but unsuccessful fires, all of the fire extinguishers emptied in the chapel resulting in an inch of white powder on just about everything. But the kicker was a tithing settlement sign-up sheet ripped from a clerk’s door, which contained the words “God hates you all”. I don’t know if they thought He had delivered that message personally, or if they had read it in a book.
Certainly the history of Christians and Jews are not without blemishes; some glaring. But to deny the genocide of the holocaust as a publicity and sympathy stunt while training children and others to blow themselves up in an effort to kill Jews is truly as you say, outer darkness on earth.
Brian talked about turning the other cheek in a post a few days ago, but in some cases as this one, evil is just evil and there just aren’t that many cheeks to go around. This has Captain Moroni and what needs to be a modernized view of “heaping mounds of earth with timbers” as a message to be heeded.
People may debate that Iran and others are just protecting their interests. But the question is, when was the last time an Israeli, strapped a bomb to his chest and walked on to a crowded Syrian bus?
Hopefully Mr. Duke will like Iran enough to stay put.
Geoff, I have no idea what you meant by that. Care to elaborate for those of us who are slow on the uptake?
Naismith, yeah, my mind sometimes works in funny ways.
What do we know about “outer darkness?” Well, I could find several scriptural references.
Mostly there’s the part about weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. But Alma 40:13 has an excellent description:
It seems to me that these spirits will spend a lot of time sitting around complaining. God isn’t going to put them someplace where they are constantly prodded with hot pokers. They will be spirits who look like us but they will be miserable. They will have all kinds of evil conspiracy theories to justify their own evil. They will hate the people of God and justify killing them and persecuting them. They will especially hate the people of Israel. In short, they will be just like a convention of Holocaust deniers.
Iran’s regime has been a sponsor of evil since it took power in 1979. I’d love to see it overthrown.
I don’t know how you can suggest that Outer Darkness will be filled with idiots. I think that’s a gross underestimate (or is it a misunderestimation) of the folks who will end up in O.D.
Geoff, I thought that only “sons of perdition” went to Outer Darkness. According to D & C 76: 31, 35, these are described as “…all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and auffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power— …Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it…”
So to carry on your analogy, the folks must have once believed strongly in the truth of the holocaust and then denied it.
I don’t get the sense that many of them ever did believe. They might bot be celestial kingdom material, but it ain’t outer darkness, either.
Naismith –
I think you’re taking the analogy too far. No analogy is ever perfect.
Don’t you find it just a little weird, nonetheless, that countries will actually pass laws that make denial of the holocaust a crime?
Shades of Orwellian thoughtcrime.
Mark, while I tend to agree, I think one has to keep in mind the history of these countries in terms of the sort of folks apt to deny the holocaust and what they’ve done in the past. We have plenty of laws they look at as rather uncivilized and thoughtcrimes.
danithew,
You do realize that the revolution of 1979 happened BECAUSE OF our overthrow of a democratically elected Iranian government back in the 50s. Look up Operation Ajax. If we play around with fire too often, we tend to get burned.
We have plenty of laws they look at as rather uncivilized and thoughtcrimes.
Any particular examples come to mind? I’m not sure what you could be referring to.