Christianity in Action

Posted on September 27th, 2005 by D. Bell

Andrew Sullivan linked to this story, stating, “I have waited for his courage to be hailed, especially on conservative Christian blogs. There are few moral evils worse than torture. So why the silence? Why?”

Well, I, for one, hadn’t heard of Fishback’s story. I thank Sullivan for bringing it to my attention, and laud Fishback’s efforts. He sounds like a very courageous person, and I hope I would react as he has if faced with similar circumstances.

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Comments

9 Responses to “Christianity in Action”

Barb [Visitor] on September 27th, 2005 11:04 pm

My comments may be ill-informed but I seem to recall those who have been guilty of war crimes of past eras not being able to take cover behind the “I was just following orders.” It is so hard because much of being a soldier requires training of acting on instinct without thinking as there are times when one needs to do things to save your lives and also to kill or destroy enemy.

Studies that I have heard state that tortue is not an effective means of obtaining accurate information from prisoners.

I do commend someone who would act on their conscience despite huge personal risks.
jjohnsen [Visitor] on September 28th, 2005 10:07 am

This is the most telling part of Sullivan’s post to me.

The Bush administration policy of allowing cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment of prisoners is about as deep a moral crime as one can imagine. It violates every central tenet of Christianity, and the hard-won honor of the U.S. military, which is why some evangelical Christians, to their credit, have spoken up about it.

Bush loves to say how strongly he believes in Christ, but do his actions back it up? Not in my opinion.
annegb [Visitor] on September 28th, 2005 10:59 am

After 9/11, immediately, I mean, I was ready to torture people myself. I was ready to play hardball and let those people know their actions would be dealt with in kind. I still am.

Abu Ghuraib (sorry about the spelling) was the site of REAL torture long before America invaded Iraq.

I do not so easily condemn those soldiers. I think their actions were demeaning to our country, but not all that “tortuous” to the prisoners, considering what they’d endured before we came. If that’s all Hussein did to his people, we could have left him alone.
Adam Greenwood [Member] on September 28th, 2005 11:02 am

J. Johnsen,

I don’t think Christianity requires treating thugs with kid gloves. You have a different opinion. Maybe you shouldn’t make your opinion the litmus test for whether one is a sincere follower of Christ or not.
John C. [Visitor] on September 28th, 2005 11:19 am

Adam,
I don’t mean to be controversial and I haven’t read the Sullivan post (no time). But I am curious. Am I understanding you correctly in saying that you believe that someone could have authorized the Abu Ghraib abuses (I am not saying that GWB or Rumsfeld did) and considered themselves a “Good Christian” afterward? I am not sure that I disagree, but I just want to make sure that I am not reading intention into statements that isn’t actually there.
Adam Greenwood [Member] on September 28th, 2005 11:55 am

I didn’t understand J. Johnsen to be talking about the Abu Ghraib abuses, since I don’t think the President authorized those.

I was thinking about the stuff that’s been alleged to happen at Gitmo with authorization–loud music, sleep deprivation, shouting, showing contempt for the Koran, etc. I understand that its controverted whether these things actually happened and, if so, whether they were authorized, but something like that seemed to be what JJohnsen was referring to.
jjohnsen [Visitor] on September 28th, 2005 10:14 pm

I was thinking about the stuff that’s been alleged to happen at Gitmo with authorization–loud music, sleep deprivation, shouting, showing contempt for the Koran, etc. I understand that its controverted whether these things actually happened and, if so, whether they were authorized, but something like that seemed to be what JJohnsen was referring to.

I guess I should have made my post more clear. I was referring to the abuse in Guantanamo as well as the abuse in Abu Ghraib.

I don’t think Christianity requires treating thugs with kid gloves. You have a different opinion. Maybe you shouldn’t make your opinion the litmus test for whether one is a sincere follower of Christ or not.

He has not condemned the torture in either place, and his administration has repeatedly tried to skirt international law so they could continue the abuse (sending captives to countries that would torture them for us, defining the prisoners in different ways so that the abuse could be legal). Is there any possible definition of Christianity that would smile upon that? Treating thugs (and non-thugs that have been released after no proof was found) with kid gloves and torturing them aren’t even close on the spectrum, isn’t there an inbetween?
jjohnsen [Visitor] on September 28th, 2005 10:17 pm

If my posts aren’t clear enough, unless you are 100% sure you have a criminal in captivity, I don’t ever think torture is acceptable or Christ-like. Unfortunately it may be possible that some of the captives under our governments control right now may have nothing to do with 9/11 or the “War on Terror” taking place in Iraq/Aphganistan.
John C. [Visitor] on September 30th, 2005 11:47 am

J Johnsen,
Do you want to amend that to say that you don’t think torture is Christ-like, even if you are 100% sure that you have a criminal is captivity?